"To the cyclists of Edinburgh, is it compulsory to cycle at night with dark clothing and no lights? Are your lives worth less than a set of lights? - Worried Lothian bus driver, Edinburgh"
That was a letter in the Metro this morning.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
Worried Lothian bus driver
(41 posts)-
Posted 14 years ago #
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Bizarrely, I can't find that in the metro I picked up, but there are a bunch of other cyclist/pedestrian/driver letters - not all anti.
Posted 14 years ago # -
It was actually in the Text views section at the bottom.
There's been a bit of an on-going spat between pedestrians/cyclists/drivers these last few days. Typical Metro letters page fodder.Posted 14 years ago # -
Bus driver should be drving his bus and watching out for invisible cyclists, not reading his Metro and composing texts.
Totally agree with his sentiments though! It seems to be the fashion.
Posted 14 years ago # -
It's particularly easy top get caught out at this time of year as the days get shorter, and the difference between when lights are needed between a clear and a overcast evening is huge. So this is probably the worst time for visibility.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Check for sunrise/set.
http://blog.blmweb.com/?page_id=229
Lighting up time is half hour before/after.
Yesterday it was dark enough for lights an hour before sunset!
Posted 14 years ago # -
One of my personal rules with my lights is to put them on when a significant number of cars have their lights on (even if I don't think it's dark enough to warrant it). This can be as low as one in ten, but to me it means that many drivers are only then looking for lit up things.
One of those things that can't hurt to do, bunging the lights on before it's actually dark...
Posted 14 years ago # -
"this is probably the worst time for visibility"
True 'nuff, but all the more reason that carrying lights should be the default position, even if people don't expect to be out late.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Wot SRD sed... ^^^^^^^^
Posted 14 years ago # -
On the other hand if car drivers would refrain from running with dipped headlights as soon as it gets anything less than broad day light we would all be easier to see with out resorting to mini fusion generators on the front.
There is no need for dipped headlights where there is street lighting.
Posted 14 years ago # -
@steveo - "There is no need for dipped headlights where there is street lighting."
Yes, there is. Driving a van/bus/truck with no rear windscreen, relying on wing mirrors... sidelights may as well be marsh gas... especially when the wing mirrors are wet/dirtyPosted 14 years ago # -
When cars have their lights on in gloom-but-not-dark it makes me worry that my current lights (more than sufficient to see by and be seen in the dark) aren't any more visible than the reflections of their headlights in parked cars' bumpers and so on, though this isn't helped by my eyes' position above and behind the lights where they leak little. I'd go for something head-mounted if I thought that car drivers with their lights already on would be looking for anything at any level other than car-headlight-height. Seeing how quickly work-finish-time has been after lighting-up-time this week I'll probably feel compelled to augment the front light set with something this weekend.
Posted 14 years ago # -
@Spytfire, not buying it....
113
You MUST
* ensure all sidelights and rear registration plate lights are lit between sunset and sunrise
* use headlights at night, except on a road which has lit street lighting. These roads are generally restricted to a speed limit of 30 mph (48 km/h) unless otherwise specified
* use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 226)
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070302Sorry poorly maintained equipment is not an excuse for any one. Besides what does it matter if the car behind you is running fairly dark as long as the one in front has decent tail lights.
Posted 14 years ago # -
@winpig - that's why I mount a flashing light on my nut lid (that flashes at a random rate so it is not something that can really be "zoned out") in addition to the heavy flashing beam on the handlebars
Posted 14 years ago # -
The problem is that sidelights are now pointlessly dim (perhaps specifically because everybody drives around using their main dip beams?)
I'd be in favour of using side-lights in town except that on our car, they are less visible than my bike light!
This time of year is interesting because it's when I start riding with my light on full time, and it does seem to make an appreciable difference to motorist stupidity (that is, they see me either way, but with the light on fewer are prone to pausing and then pulling out anyway)
For the cautious, I recommend having a headstrap-mounted light quite highly. You can direct it at specific targets of your ire (people closing in down a roundabout entrance, etc) who wouldn't otherwise get much from your normal lights.
Posted 14 years ago # -
The only real solution.Posted 14 years ago # -
Hmm, are the 'tache and glasses necessary? Otherwise I'm good with it.
Posted 14 years ago # -
@Dave, side lights don't have to be bright under street lights you can see the cars. How do you think the masses with blinkies managed not to run into cars at every junction. They are usually only 5/10w incandescent bulbs and I expect they were never much brighter than that its just that people have become accustomed to seeing 100+w of car headlight and folk with dimmer lights just disappear into the night.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Hmm, are the 'tache and glasses necessary? Otherwise I'm good with it.
Well the glasses keep the wasps out your eyes, I suppose the moustache keeps them out ones mouth
Posted 14 years ago # -
@kaputnik - no, no it doesn't. It does, however, keep your top lip from getting stung and adds a nice insulation layer on frosty mornings, have you ever seen an arctic explorer without full face fuzz (often with ice hanging from it)? It catches soup (and noodles) and can be broken off when frozen solid and added to melted ice in a pot to make a new super broth comprised of weeks worth of various foods.... mmm tasty
Posted 14 years ago # -
"its just that people have become accustomed to seeing 100+w of car headlight and folk with dimmer lights just disappear into the night"
Exactly. There's a fair argument that we'd be best off if nobody had lights at all, and you had to pay attention to what was going on (is that car parked? Is it just being driven close to the kerb?)
But like it or not, your car is competing for attention with many vehicles that have their fog lights or even full beams on (I've seen a few these last days).
I fear our car would just look like a gap in traffic with the sides on.
Posted 14 years ago # -
Personally i'm happy with that if some one pulls out in front of me then its still their fault. Personally i rarely drive with my dips on in town usually only when i forget to override the auto headlight system and i've yet to have a car drive into me.
Taking that to the nth degree should all bikes have 100+ watts of halogen so they don't look like a gap in traffic? After all a little blinky is dimmer than my side lights and a bike is much less noticeable (apparently) than my ton of rolling French (dodgy) manufacturing.
Posted 14 years ago # -
It is my perception that there is something of a headlights arms-race going on, particularly among cars of the "executive" breed. Not content with having the daytime row of perma-lit LEDs around your main lights so that other punters know where exactly your lights are if they happened to be wondering, it also seems if you don't have beams on the front that can cut through steel sheet at 20 paces then you aren't keeping up. Some cars out there seriously blind you to the point where you think it would be safer to wear sunnies at night!
Interestingly, I was an hour earlier than usual on the road this morning so it was proper "dark" and encountered a Volvo running without any lights at all. I wonder if they still worked during day time?
Posted 14 years ago # -
People sitting with their foot on the brakes does my head in too. (Highway code now makes a point about how you shouldn't do it).
Posted 14 years ago # -
Dave can we back up a second... Are you saying your uncomfortable in a car with ~150 lumens upfront and all requisite safety equipment but comfortable on your bike with only an extra 100 lumens?
Posted 14 years ago # -
"Bus driver should be drving his bus and watching out for invisible cyclists, not reading his Metro and composing texts."
Maybe....just maybe he doesn't drive a bus 24/7. He's right too. There are many blind spots on a vehicle that size so get yourself seen. Take a brush to your bike add some tape if you like but get yourself seen.....dark means danger!
Posted 14 years ago # -
Highway code now makes a point about how you shouldn't do it.
"Rule 114: You MUST NOT
* use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders
* use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other road users (see Rule 226)In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again."
RVLR 27:
"No person shall use, or cause or permit to be used, on a road any vehicle on which any lamp, hazard warning signal device or warning beacon of a type specified [in an item in column 2 of the Table below] is used:11 (Any other lamp) ...so as to cause undue dazzle or discomfort to other persons using the road."
Bit difficult on a motorbike, that one, since most of them don't have handbrakes/parking brakes.
Posted 14 years ago # -
"113
You MUST
* ensure all sidelights and rear registration plate lights are lit between sunset and sunrise
* use headlights at night, except on a road which has lit street lighting. These roads are generally restricted to a speed limit of 30 mph (48 km/h) unless otherwise specified
* use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced (see Rule 226)"Indeed, you must, but "MUST" is the key word there, that is the MINIMUM, not the reccomendation...
As with speed limits being a maximum, many lighting rules are the minimum.Personally if it's dark enough to merit lights then dipped lights go on. I try to use bright cycle lights for the same reason, not because it's the legal minimum but because it's sensible.
Cars etc are generally moving faster and in a different road position to bicycles in poor/borderline positions, hence lower poer bike lights being adequate, I would suggest however if you are travelling at powered vehicle speeds and consequently occupying comparable road positions then brighter lights are sensible.Posted 14 years ago # -
The different road position is half the problem your dipped head lights are dipping to the position where most cyclists can be found, all your dipped head lights do is completely over whelm the lights of the cyclist. Making your self safer at the expense of another road user.
Even with the brightest lights at any kind of distance a cyclist is nearly indistinguishable from the car that may be many metres behind thus a car coming out a junction mightn't see the cyclist since they think there is sufficient gap.
Also you'll note that the use of side lights is an exception and not a legal minimum. You must use headlights except where there is street lighting.
Posted 14 years ago # -
there is something of a headlights arms-race going on
Same on rear lights too.. I'm guilty of owning and using a Cherry Bomb now...
Not sure if it's legal. Seems a bit bright but does make cars notice. As does that rack light that TBC sold me.
Batteries will run down and it will get back to normal I'm sure!
Posted 14 years ago #
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