Convergent evolution in action!
I think gravel is probably what most mountain bikers really did before trail centers exploded. Long out days on rough tracks (maybe a bit rougher) where the need for massive travel was realistically limited.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Stuff
Typical bad advice needed
(80 posts)-
Posted 8 years ago #
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Random googling -
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Over the past 12 months, the US has been all about the gravel bike. Defined, roughly, as a combination of a road bike (happy on tarmac) and a cyclocross bike (happy on mud), it's easy to see how the market for gravel bikes has grown across the pond, where the countryside is criss-crossed by miles and miles of unused tracks designed to help fire trucks navigate around remote forests. Tracks that are too technical for a road bike, yet too fast for a cyclo-cross bike.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/recreational-cycling/11784947/Introducing-the-gravel-bike-
this-years-new-cycling-trend.htmlDon't really understand 2nd half of last sentence.
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Gravel/adventure bikes have gone very quickly from the latest craze to a significant part of most bike companies' ranges. These bikes are tailored for long-distance comfort, with disc brakes, big tyre clearance and geometry honed to excel both on the road and off, whether it's a gravel, forest or dirt track.
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http://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/171097-buyer’s-guide-gravel-and-adventure-bikes-plus-13-best
So a touring bike with clearance for flattish tyres and don't bother with mudguards??
I don't suppose disc brakes are actually essential before it can be called a GB.
Of course gravel is perhaps the least best word. Gravel generally is about the worst surface to cycle far on. There is also the well known consequence - gravel rash!
I presume gravel in the US basically means 'unpaved'/not tarmac(?)
Posted 8 years ago # -
Yeah "trekking" was too European for the UK. (Perhaps.)
It was a word that emerged as an option when the alternatives included hybrid (which largely caught on) and cross - not to be confused with cyclocross!
Posted 8 years ago # -
It may be the latest marketing buzzword, but actually so-called 'gravel' bikes are more or less ideal for fast day rides or commutes on mixed (non-technical) surfaces, being essentially cyclocross bikes with 'endurance' geometry. 'Off-road Audax bikes', if you like
Going back to where this thread started, the Genesis Croix de Fer is basically a gravel bike with mounting points for mudguards and racks, making it closer to a traditional British touring bike but with slightly 'faster' geometry and higher gearing.
The main benefit of disc brakes on such bikes is to provide large tyre clearances (which could be provided with cantilevers, but at the expense of braking performance).
Posted 8 years ago # -
What would the sort of loose-packed/leafmulchy/pine-needle surfacing of the Dalmeny-Newbridge path of the bit of NCN76 between Blackness and Hopetoun be classed as, surface/discipline-wise?
Posted 8 years ago # -
"be classed as"
Adventurous?
Posted 8 years ago # -
I've ridden Blackness-Hopetoun on 23mm tyres several times - seemed pretty well packed to me. Probably wouldn't at this time of year though.
I believe 'glaur' is the official Scots terminology for the Dalmeny-Newbridge surface
Posted 8 years ago # -
Good grief.
The so-called 'gravel tracks' are what used to be called back in pre-MTB days 'rough stuff'. See George Berwick and the Rough Stuff Fellowship, various CTC rides, etc. See here for history: http://www.cyclorama.net/viewArticle.php?id=334
All done on touring bikes with slightly fatter tyres, I think. Mudguards? Probably not. Saddlebag? Certainly.
"For Rough Stuff any good touring bike will do, preferably with cantilever brakes and no mudguards" (2006, Source)
Posted 8 years ago # -
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We're certainly not your average off road cycling or mountain biking club. The RSF has a lot going on for riders of all ages, abilities and interests. Whether you are after a gentle ride on the cycle paths, an outing on the local tracks and trails, all day back-country epics, or even multi day off road touring, you are sure to find some like-minded people to ride with."
Photo shows MTBs though!
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Progress" no doubt... ;-)
Or maybe an "expedition tourer" e.g.. Thorn Sherpa, Surly LHT 26?
Posted 8 years ago # -
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any Reynolds 531 frame should be fine !
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http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1993#p11454
Must resurrect my 'not quite a cyclocross bike' bike.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I have traversed numerous 'unpaved tracks' on my Raleigh former-straight-bar-cross-hybrid-now-drop-bar-cross-tourer. Reynolds 501 (lugged cromoly) frame, canti brakes, Marathon Plus tyres 700x32 tyres, mudguards.
Also ridden forest roads in Tentsmuir* on several flavours of 20" wheeled folding bike. 1.75" tyres, mudguards, luggage. Really no problem at all. A comfy/sprung saddle helps!
In neither case was I racing or going fast. For that, I suppose a CX bike or gravel bike would be good.
* - easily accessible via train (plus some on-road pedalling) from Leuchars or Dundee
Posted 8 years ago # -
I can ride the WoL or Donkey Lane on my road bike with 23mm tyres. It's not ideal but anything is possible. However, I guess the whole point of different kinds of bikes is to get you to somewhere better than "possible" (like how you can hand-cut a compound mitre in a bit of timber with a penknife... or use a mitre saw)
Posted 8 years ago # -
I've done plenty of off road touring on my mtb, generally its "over biked" for the tracks, far to heavy and the tyres too knobbly. But the alternative is my racer which would have been virtual suicide or just a long walk with awkward luggage on some routes. And lets face it anything less than a full mtb is going to struggle at Glentress or any other trail centre.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"In the early days of cycling there were very few metalled roads, so by default virtually all cycling could be defined as rough stuff. "
"After all this you may ask is there any where the RSF would view as not feasible with a cycle. Here are couple of examples, firstly the Rock Path from Stac Pollaidh to Ullapool along Loch Broom in the far north west of Scotland. There have been several reports of riders getting into difficulties their bikes being lost over the cliffs and the riders being lucky to get back in one piece. Secondly, the crossing of the Helvellyn Ridge in the Lake District via Striding Edge, the narrow knife-edge of eroded granite."
"Over the last 40 years off road riding has gradually ceased to be part of normal club riding and has now become a specialist part of cycling. Partly this has been driven by changes in equipment. Until the 1950's the majority of cyclist only had one machine, which they used for touring and racing alike. As bicycles became more specialised they ceased to be so versatile. A bike with no mudguards with narrow tyres and steep angles is only going to be a liability off road. Many of today's club cyclist will either not go off road or would want to use a mountain bike. It is interesting to note that today within the RSF about half are on mountain bikes the rest riding traditional touring machines."
Posted 8 years ago # -
Came home to find that my shiny new Croix de Fer has been delivered. It looks lovely but I'm not going to get a chance to ride it until the weekend, so it will have to sit wrapped up in its box until then.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"so it will have to sit wrapped up in its box until then"
Why?...
Posted 8 years ago # -
Work stuff, unfortunately.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Even so, you should definitely get it out and stare at it for several hours, cooing every now and then
Posted 8 years ago # -
So, if I were interested in doing a long ride in the middle of next year and if I currently have (a) a Brompton and (b) a heavy commuter bike with racks, dynamo, flat bars, hub gears and 35mm tyres what n+1 do I need for it?
This is not an excuse for you to wander off into carbon-fuelled flights of fancy: I need something that I can get past the Greenroofer Towers Finance Committee. I'm thinking it would still have mudguards, puncture-resistant tyres and a dynamo, but after that I'm open to suggestions.
Maybe my question is best phrased as 'can you recommend any good value audax-style bikes for less than (say) £500'?
Posted 8 years ago # -
The EBC had a biggish framed country traveller which was the answer I gave to a big Dutch pal ( to a slightly different question he was asking)but he bought it So probably not there now. Check EBC special offers they have been shedding stock. Just checked the Whyte and the east way that I liked both gone now - they were six hundred.
There is their own brand continental but only in a 52cm that is too small for you alas. It takes mudguards and rack. Good price at £299 though the drive train is a bit low spec. Claris 2x8
Posted 8 years ago # -
What size/braking method is your dynamo wheel?
Something like this, but swap your wheel in to the front:
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/fuji/tread-13-2015-adventure-road-bike-ec069180#features
Maybe...
Posted 8 years ago # -
Greenroofer, if the relevant shoe-swapping event were to occur, I would look into converting your daily steed to a distance animal. By which I mean a Brooks saddle'n'Carradice, skinnier tyres and a step down to cable disc brakes to enable drop bars and their Alfine shifter.
I expect that to weigh in comfortably under five hundred notes.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@Uberuce - interesting idea, but I kind of like the current one the way it is: maintenance consists of a new chain (£4.99) every 800 miles or so, and once a year new brake pads and a hub service. I clean the chain about once a month and erm that's about it.
I'm 99.9% sure I'm in n+1 territory here, rather than take an existing n and do something substantial to it. This n+1 might be cossetted, primped and pampered rather than abused like my current day-to-day steed.
Of course one answer is just to say "stop fussing and ride the bike you've got", which is perfectly possible, but probably harder work (and therefore slower) than would be ideal for a long ride.
@Darkerside. That's a very tempting suggestion. Interesting pointer about using the dynamo I have (which indeed does have a disc on it).
Posted 8 years ago # -
Plus one for darkerside's n+1 suggestion . I think you can do a hundred miler on a flat bar, watched a guy do it on a Brompton. But let's face it, you are buying a drop handle bar audax baby
Posted 8 years ago # -
A budget adventure road bike may be an option, but you'll still need mudguards, dynamo wheel, and might want different tyres, saddle if you don't like the stock options.
Have you considered buying second hand or "ex-demo"? Quite a few "audax" bikes of varying vintages and conditions for sale on fleaBay. Recently spotted a beautiful, mint condition Thorn Audax Mk3 in Glasgow with full 105 group set which went for about £750. A steal.
If you're quick this new Dawes Century SE (57cm frame) ends in less than hour, is £599+£28 courier. Pretty good price for a bike that costs nearly a grand normally. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DAWES-CENTURY-SE-AUDAX-RACING-TOURING-BIKE-NEW-/371488688915
There's also a rather nice used Surly Cross Check (58cm nominal) being auctioned off by SJS Cycles. Just serviced by them. Mavic Krysium wheels. Currently at £310 with five hours to go.. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Surly-Cross-Check-Cyclocross-Bike-Ultegra-Light-Touring-Mavic-Ksyrium-Cycle-58cm/161885739051?
Less ostentatious steeds are available: a fair few Ribble audax bikes going, and a number of steel-framed Dawes Audax bikes too. Most can be had for between £200-£400, most already fitted with mudguards, etc. but also the various provisos of used bikes.
So if say you manage to get a half decent bike for maybe £350 or less; add in a dynamo wheel for £80; front light another £30-£40; new tyres £40 if you shop around; maybe some new brake blocks £20; add whatever saddle, bar tape, luggage carrying options you fancy and can afford...
Posted 8 years ago # -
@crowriver - that's a good point too. It's easy to default to buying new, when in fact there are great secondhand options. eBay is a mystery to me, but I might take a wander down to Soul Cycles/Bike Station to see what's there...
Posted 8 years ago # -
"I think you can do a hundred miler on a flat bar"
Do people really cycle using the dropped bits of drops? Really? I want to puke after about five minutes when I try them and I can never see where I'm going.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Do people really cycle using the dropped bits of drops?"
Yes, but.
Drops are to give you the chance to get a lower, more aerodynamic, position. This can be advantageous when racing or when you there's a particularly strong headwind.
The main advantage of drops is that there are more positions for your hands to allow you to change - which is an advantage for long distances.
Since the adven of better brakes (particularly dual pivot) it's easy to ride 'on the hoods' and have good braking power without needing to go to the drops position for extra leverage.
Hands can also hold the bars in various places between the brake levers and the stem.
Posted 8 years ago #
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