CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Commuting

A Radical New Solution to Congestion

(23 posts)
  • Started 14 years ago by Wilmington's Cow
  • Latest reply from chdot

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  1. I've cracked it. While Richard Hammond... Sorry... Philip Hammond, reckons that electric cars the same size and the same in number as today's petrol cars will magically cure congestion (what do I know, it's him that's transport secretary so presumably has an army of boffins at his disposal), I've a radical new suggestion.

    Ban compulsory universal education.

    Anyone riding into Edinburgh today in the October-week-off (haven't they only just gone back after summer?!?!) could not argue with the potential efficacity of such a measure. Sure there would be some drawbacks - there would be a redundancy in government for the education secretary, but on the plus side that's Michael Gove.

    (On a serious note (oh, okay, I was serious about Michael Gove) can you imagine the effect on traffic levels if something was done about getting kids to school without the use of personal cars? When the ill-fated (and ill-thought-out) congestion charge for Edinburgh was being debated there was a sign on the back of a bus, paid for by the Council, asking "Wouldn't it be great if the traffic every day was like in the school holidays?" A friend of mine contacted the Council to ask why, then, they didn't consider something around school traffic to reduce congestion, and the response was "We don't believe that school traffic has that much effect on daily traffic." Which raises two points: firstly, why use the point in an advert then?; and secondly, open your eyes!).

    Posted 14 years ago #
  2. cb
    Member

    Lightness of traffic during school hols is largely driven by the fact that a reasonable amount of the population are not even in the city - they are away on holiday somewhere. Someone who worked for the government once told me that this was the main reason. [Needs citation].

    Posted 14 years ago #
  3. wingpig
    Member

    I used to go down Lauriston Place every day and that was certainly noticeably quieter (to the point of being virtually empty) during school holidays.

    Did the council conduct surveys of pupils and parents (similar to that undertaken by my employer (presumably at council-request) and presumably others prior to the toll-vote) to work out how many pupil-ferrying car journeys might be considered unnecessary, post-charge-implementation?

    Posted 14 years ago #
  4. SRD
    Moderator

    Given that so many parents claim that they 'need their car for school drop-offs' presumably many of them would be free to take the bus etc to work, if they didn't need to drop off the kids? Or is it possible that children drop-offs are just an excuse?

    Posted 14 years ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    Many people who own cars will use all sorts of excuses/justification for doing what they do.

    For some it's to cover what they 'know' they 'ought' to be doing.

    There have been many schemes where people (and families) are asked about their travel habits and shown alternatives (and given some encouragement).

    For some people it's as simple as showing that there is a suitable bus route nearby - or a cyclepath nearby.

    Other people take the attitude that they have paid for their car - and the roads - and ANYTHING - fuel tax/price rises, speed/parking restrictions are 'against their civil liberties'....

    Surveys have suggested that such people are less then 20% (probably much lower for the most militant), yet somehow the drive (oops) the agenda of (for instance) the Daily Mail, and in turn many politicians/councils and the UK Government.

    I suspect that some people on this forum have 'liberated' themselves from this 'tyranny', others perhaps never got caught (certainly in a daily commute by car sense).

    Transport - and choices - are infinitely complex. I assume most people on here would like to see more people cycling, and have more cycle 'facilities' (on or off road is another debate!)

    We all know places that are better - Copenhagen of course and, increasingly, London.

    But this in Edinburgh.

    The proposed congestion charge was a bad scheme (it probably wouldn't have affected most school journeys). It would probably never have got a referendum majority however well designed/promoted.

    Some years ago Edinburgh decided to have a tram system. The idea was to pay for much of it out of the congestion charge. One reason was to 'get drivers out of their cars - especially the ones too posh for the bus. Since the initial decision the trams have been scaled back (and back).

    Balancing the spending on road/rail/pavement etc. is far from easy, but with all the rhetoric about healthy lifestyles, climate change etc. it's not hard to argue that more should be spent on walking/cycling, Safe Routes to School etc.

    But no-one seems to be listening.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  6. SRD
    Moderator

    chdot - yes, all true. but there does seem to be an additional 'i can only deal with my kids in a car' scenario. Thinking of a colleague of mine who was an enthusiastic and prolific car user, but perfectly happy to take bus to work, until he also had to do a nursery run. he simply could not conceive of taking child to/from nursery by bus. Said categorically "we agreed that who-ever has the baby has the car". Which I find bizarre, but perhaps also reflects stress levels of parents trying to juggle jobs, kids etc.

    PS met a keen cyclist couple expecting their first baby at an ante-natal class yesterday. encouraged them to check out our discussions on bike seats, trailers etc...perhaps they will update us on their experiences....

    Posted 14 years ago #
  7. gembo
    Member

    Banning universal education - that is what Michael Gove is trying to do

    School opening times are fixed. People dropping children at school in cars are therefore all on the roads at the same time. Roads are much quieter after 9 a.m. - so much so that it is possiblefor your journey to end at the same time if you delay your setting off point. [only really works on longer journeys and if you can be flexible with when you arrive at work - ie later- - anyone who works on a flexi-time arrangement should be able to do this]. Roads are quieter in hols because less traffic and also traffic that is on the road can vary the time that it enters the flow [well no longer existing flow]. If you are an early riser and do not need to drop kids off at school yourself, then setting off ten minutes earlier will also prove eye-opening. Roads are fairly empty 7am til 7.45a.m. We are all creatures of habit governed by fixed and fast relationships it seems.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

    Having kids changes people (cliché).

    There are undoubtedly people without the confidence to take young children on bikes in current 'rush hour' conditions.

    All a bit chicken and egg really.

    I'm reminded of the The Woman Who Stops Traffic series.

    A man drove his kids to school. He was asked how long he thought it would take to walk. "About an hour". Persuaded to walk by being on telly, they found it was more like 20 minutes - and they all enjoyed it.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  9. gembo
    Member

    It is possible to take your children to school on foot whilst pushing your bike and when they have gone into the playground to beat the cars to Gillespies X-road and beyond.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  10. Min
    Member

    Bet he went straight back to drving them once the cameras went away.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  11. chdot
    Admin

    "We all know places that are better - Copenhagen of course and, increasingly, London."

    AND NY
    .

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Plugin
    .

    "But this in Edinburgh."

    Posted 14 years ago #
  12. "I'm reminded of the The Woman Who Stops Traffic series."

    There was another character on one of those who drove her kids (less than a mile) and it would take half an hour to 45 minutes. They walked it with the host and found it was 20 minutes.

    Then she went back a few months later and found the same woman in her car taking the kids. When asked why she replied, "We were running late this morning."

    I almost threw something at the telly.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  13. SRD
    Moderator

    "I almost threw something at the telly." Presumably we need to calculate in the time it would take her to go home and fetch her car to go to work? Dunno. That is one advantage of the bike though and/or taking the bus!

    Posted 14 years ago #
  14. She didn't work....

    Posted 14 years ago #
  15. SRD
    Moderator

    ARGH! But, it does make you think that lots of people struggle to get their kids out the door if it doesn't involve strapping them into seats. This story from the NYT is entirely off topic (it's about toddlers and iphones) but sends rather the same message.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  16. Dave
    Member

    "Balancing the spending on road/rail/pavement etc. is far from easy"

    Well, it is probably very easy, it's just not popular!

    Posted 14 years ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

    “Well, it is probably very easy, it's just not popular!"

    Probably very true. Though the 'problem' is we'll never know as no-one is brave enough to stand up to the Daily Mail (etc.) line of (alleged) populism/motorised normality.

    "He told me we’re not going to see any more congestion charging, that the trains aren’t a viable option for most people, that he was unimpressed by the effects of speed cameras and that governments are daft to try to force people out of cars.

    ”http://www.bikehub.co.uk/news/bike-to-work/why-do-motorists-get-cash-handouts-but-cyclists-dont/

    Posted 14 years ago #
  18. Min
    Member

    This is Edinburgh.

    Where spending £500 000 000 on no-tram is easy.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

  20. chdot
    Admin

    "We all know places that are better - Copenhagen of course and, increasingly, London."

    http://www.bikebiz.com/news/33044/TfLs-blue-bike-routes-lead-to-linear-London-bike-boom

    Posted 14 years ago #
  21. gembo
    Member

    If the woman walked her children to school and walked back she would still be 5 minutes quicker than driving them one-way, so even if she had to use her car to go to the charity shop where she volunteered, the library or Tesco she would still save 5 mins. She would also have taken some exercise. So how can we help? You can get the kids started on a saving the planet campaign and asking to walk to school through walk to school week. We did that a couple of years ago and it worked well but maybe was a novelty? as don't seem to have done so since, I must write to the Parent Council now.

    Posted 14 years ago #
  22. Smudge
    Member

    @ Chdot "We all know places that are better - Copenhagen of course and, increasingly, London."

    AND NY"

    Nice little film, is the grass always greener though? I we picked a popular (and congested) commuting route into Edinburgh (or indeed several) I'm sure with teh combined knowledge of the forum members we could produce a number of similar films showing pleasant routes into/out of Edinburgh.
    If anyone with the tech skills wanted to do one, say for Balerno/Currie/Juniper Green into central Edinburgh I'd happily be a presenter/model (if your camera will stand it lol)

    Posted 14 years ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    "the grass always greener though?"

    Yes/no

    "I'm sure with teh combined knowledge of the forum members we could produce a number of similar films showing pleasant routes into/out of Edinburgh."

    An interesting challenge.

    Obviously there are stretches of routes into Edinburgh - Innocent, Canal etc.

    I'm sure there are plenty of less pleasant routes into and around NYC. In the past Mayors have put in on-street cycle lanes (even segregated ones) and other ones taken them out.

    In the last couple of years NYC seems to have begun to take cycling seriously.

    So has London (started under previous Mayor but accelerated under present one).

    Meanwhile...

    Do we need a Mayor or David Byrne or?

    Posted 14 years ago #

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