CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Questions/Support/Help

definitely not vorsprung durch technik (USB-Werk woes)

(20 posts)
  • Started 9 years ago by unhurt
  • Latest reply from unhurt
  • This topic is resolved

  1. unhurt
    Member

    Right, so: after consulting the wise ones of this forum re: hub dynamos etc. back in the spring I got myself all set up and then bought a USB-Werk on Amazon for the big cycle trip across Canada.

    This worked perfectly for the the first 2.5 weeks of the trip - and I was very happy to not to have to skulk about looking for power outlets when I would much rather be eating all the donuts in Canada or sitting in the sun - but at this point it began to intermittently stop charging devices attached to it. I thought perhaps a connection was loose, or there was a problem with the contacts, and took it off the bike then reattached it. It worked again for a couple of days, then stopped working again. I took it off the bike & reattached it again. And did that again. And then yet again. Then, hurrah!, it began to work once more. Or so I thought.

    Unfortunately its next trick was to comprehensively fry the battery in my new phone, leaving me without communication or detailed navigation somewhere near the Alberta/Saskatchewan border. Hoping this was a one-off event I then tried charging my rear light. Which it also fried. After this I applied some common sense and stopped using it. I eventually had to buy a crappy 2nd hand phone handset at the exortionate cost of $250 from the only open phone repair shop in Moose Jaw (which had exactly one 2nd hand handset to sell so at least the choice was simple...), and also ended up buying an alternative charger* thingy to use with my hub dynamo from t'internet, shipped ahead to a hotel in Winnipeg.

    Pretty cheesed off, I stuck the USB-Werk in the bottom of a pannier, then shipped it home ahead of me. So, now I'm back, I emailed Busch & Müller to ask how I should go ahead returning it - at the very least for fixing/replacing, though preferably for a refund given I now have another gadget to do the same job. But they've just told me to contact Amazon. But I can't see any way to return an item that's past the 30 day window after purchase.

    Help? Is there somewhere I'm missing on Amazon that will let me say "returning this in irritation because it stopped working while still new"? Or should I write a more strongly worded email to B&M? Anyone else know if this is a known issue (the frying-of-electronics) with the USB-Werk? (Instructions said it was fine to charge stuff directly through the USB adaptor. Frying took place at average speeds in dry conditions.)

    *ended up with a tiny matchbox-sized Sinewave Revolution. I wish I'd gone with that in the first place - think I was put off by international shipping. But it has worked perfectly and the chap I emailed back & forth with re: shipping times etc. was super helpful.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  2. LaidBack
    Member

    That's a bit of a disaster. Basically B&M should give you a better response. I'd certainly have refunded it.
    No product is fail proof but the E-werk has been around for a while so I would expect better. I had a new SON hub fail which resulted in a lot of faffing about. They did though rebuild although I had to dig a bit to find out why.
    AMba marketing used to be distributor for B&M. Worth finding out who does it now as they would be interested to hear your tale.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  3. Cyclops
    Member

    Amba are still the UK distributor for B&M. Not sure whether somebody the size of Amazon actually uses them though or is merely able to buy direct from the manufacturer

    Posted 9 years ago #
  4. unhurt
    Member

    I definitely regret buying via Amazon at this point... (was incredibly busy and it seemed simplest at the time). I shall have another dig about the Amazon customer (non)service pages and if that doesn't throw anything up I'll get back to B&M with a higher level of demandingness!

    Posted 9 years ago #
  5. Baldcyclist
    Member

    I would have thought your contract was with Amazon, and that as the item is faulty the 30 days return policy (which is for non wanted stuff anyway) is tosh.

    Roll back your sleeves and get ready to have a fight with Amazon, sometimes it's fun ;)

    Posted 9 years ago #
  6. unhurt
    Member

    Oh joy! Perhaps I shall gird my loins this evening and sit down with a glass of wine to do battle.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  7. Roibeard
    Member

    Yep, go for Amazon, but not under their T&C, but under the Sale of Goods Act - goods not of merchantable quality/not of adequate durability.

    I've found their customer service under these conditions to be exceptional. They had their own bundle of GoPro camera and accessories, and when one accessory mount broke, they insisted on giving me a very generous % refund, despite the fact that they could still supply the mount on its own, for substantially less than the refund, and despite the fact that I kept pointing this out! Their argument was that they no longer supplied the bundle...

    In any case, in my experience, the wine won't be necessary once you get in touch with the human customer service department, as opposed to the webforms.

    Robert

    Posted 9 years ago #
  8. kaputnik
    Moderator

    But I can't see any way to return an item that's past the 30 day window after purchase.

    We've twice returned the same model of electric whisk to amazon outside the 30 days window after the motors burnt out. Just contact their customer service and they will re-open the link that allows you to print off the return invoice and the pre-paid postage sticker for the parcel. They also are good at refunding you before receipt of the goods.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  9. unhurt
    Member

    Thanks - all very helpful! (I may have the wine anyway, mind - it is a Friday...)

    Posted 9 years ago #
  10. chrisfl
    Member

    Have to admit outside of the 1 month returns window. Amazon make the returns bit hard to find. But my experience is that once you get in touch they usually are happy to refund.

    So I think you need to click on Help, scroll down and Click on need More Help then contact us.

    This brings up a form which should let your find/choose your order and the item, you can then select the item, choose faulty and get in touch by email/phone/chat.

    Once you speak to a person then I don't think you will have any problems.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  11. LaidBack
    Member

    Hope you get sorted.
    So it was the version with a small internal battery? This is one we fitted on a trike recently - now I'm worried.

    http://www.starbike.com/en/busch-and-mueller-usb-werk/

    I thought that having an internal battery cache would protect items but it seems not. They also seem to sell a larger external cache battery.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  12. unhurt
    Member

    Cheers @chrisfl, navigation most helpful.

    @LaidBack - that's the one I have. However, as with mine the description seems to muddle the USB-Werk with the E-Werk. My understanding is that it's only the latter that can be adjusted to give different voltage outputs (there was no way to do that with the USB-Werk). More annoyingly, the external cache battery, which I also bought as I thought I would charge it once phone and lights were full so I had backup if needed, only works with the E-Werk, not with the USB-Werk - at first I thought the cache battery was faulty when it refused to charge. (This was while the USB-Werk was working fine for phone etc.) But I'm not sure if I have any chance of returning it as it's my own mistake. I was further led astray by Amazon's "often bought together" recommendation (suggesting plenty of other people have made the same error?). Bah!

    All that said, the USB-Werk seemed to come pretty highly recommended - which is why I bought one - so quite possibly I've just had especially bad luck!

    Posted 9 years ago #
  13. LaidBack
    Member

    @unhurt - agree the extra battery thing is very confusing as is having two models of E-werk.

    The Sinewave Revolution may be the one the forum recommends in future. Let us know how it goes over a longer period.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  14. unhurt
    Member

    Will do! Hoping to find a long weekend before autumn's over to take a mini-tour, so should be using it again soonish.

    Oh, and thanks all - having followed Aamzon-navigation advice above they are indeed refunding before I've even posted the stuff back! (So I had better get organised and actually do that...)

    Posted 9 years ago #
  15. Ruth Amba Marketing
    Member

    Hello all. I'm Ruth from Amba Marketing and we are the UK distributor for B&M ( We have done this for nearly 30 years... yes I know I'm dating myself there...). David at Laid Back Bikes kindly mentioned this thread to me and I wanted to take the opportunity to respond to some of the points made. Thanks also to Ch at the forum for allowing me to post.

    Firstly LaidBack I'm sorry to hear you had a problem with the USB-WERK and also that you didn't get the right advice or support from Amazon. We don't and never will supply bigger organisations with technical products as they are most unlikely to have the capacity or time to understand the products and or be able to give good advice which in my opinion is paramount. Yes you can buy products cheaper there but as you have found you may not get the support, advice and expertise that a qualified independent retailer can give you. So for example, if you had purchased via one of our carefully chosen UK retailers (we have some excellent ones in Scotland including Laid Back Bikes!) you would have been given the correct info in the first place and support as and when required. Sorry small rant over.... :-)

    Unhurt in regard to your comment about B&M should give more support in this situation. Firstly the European law states that your contract is with the retailer from whom you made your purchase and they are your first port of call for help. The law also states that the retailer should abide by the manufacturers stated warranty terms UNLESS they clearly state that they are offering their own terms and this must be displayed clearly to you the purchaser before you pay. (B&M offer a 2 year warranty excluding misuse, abuse etc. My understanding is that Amazon does not choose to follow this warranty). The law then states that if the retailer declines to assist you then you must go to the distributor who supplied the retailer (in this case not us) and then if the distributor won't help you can go to the manufacturer..... all rather long winded and tedious! So, actually B&M are were not wrong to send you back to the retailer for assistance they were simply abiding by the regulations that we have to work within.

    So having said all of that I took a moment to look at the returns we had for B&M this year. These are in single figures (good products don't generally fail.....). None were E-WERKS or USB-WERKS. A couple were genuine warranty claims but most were due to 'human error'.... We did have a high number of enquiries from folks who had purchased via Amazon and ended up with the 'incorrect' product due to lack of advice and support from what I can see. These via either Amazon itself or European retailers selling on Amazon..... so we are here to help, to answer questions, give advice, recommend you a good retailer to help you too; not just for when you purchase but for after market support. My number is 01392 829903 please feel free to call me.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  16. neddie
    Member

    Manufacturer blames retailer. Retailer blames manufacturer.

    Been there before.

    Doesn't sound like a resolution to me.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  17. LaidBack
    Member

    @Ruth/Amba

    Just to clarify - 'unhurt' is purchaser of this item. Think you meant that. He did ask the 'wise ones' of the forum what he should get and E-werk was answer.
    Can see you wrote a long response and will read later. Obviously as a local business we prefer to sell to forum but have to accept that people can and will buy wherever.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  18. Ruth Amba Marketing
    Member

    Correct Laid Back - now debating if that was too much coffee or not enough to mix names... ha great start!

    Posted 9 years ago #
  19. LaidBack
    Member

    Should also say that @unhurt is definitely not a he so I got that wrong.

    Quoted wearing turquoise long-sleeve and black skirt with sparkles on this thread We Walk, We Cycle, We Vote.

    Oops. Sorry @unhurt.

    Ruth that's ok as this is a friendly forum full of co-incidences and contradictions! Experiences and opinions differ - please have a look in at other threads. I think the Amazon link on forum is due to be reviewed. Of course LB is linked but really a historical anachronism (!).

    Posted 9 years ago #
  20. unhurt
    Member

    It happens surprisingly often!

    (Generally I don't buy things from the great behemoth of online retail when there are convenient other options, but life was a little fraught* in the run-up to my big trip, and something had to give...)

    Pretty sure the phone-frying wasn't due to user error - there are only so many ways to set things up and I did seek full instructions before doing so... However, the amazonians have refunded me, so that's where I plan to leave things.

    *this is a bit of an understatement

    Posted 9 years ago #

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