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Edinburgh Gateway Station

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  1. crowriver
    Member

    I noticed from the train the other day that they have finally started building this new station on the Fife line, the promised tram interchange and station for the airport.

    I suppose it will be handy for those travelling from Fife and points further north to Edinburgh Airport. Maybe a bit faster than the tram too from Waverley? I wonder if folk will board a tram to get them to the airport from here, or jump in a taxi?

    Anyone know if there are cycle paths/links planned as part of this new station?

    Oh, apparently, according to Network Rail:

    "Better facilities for cyclists
    The new station will include:

    Secure, covered cycle parking for 100 cycles
    Five cycle lockers immediately next to the station
    CCTV coverage of the cycle park
    Station lifts large enough to accommodate bikes
    The subway under the A8 from the Gyle Shopping Centre will also provide access for both cycles and pedestrians."

    http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/11969.aspx

    Posted 8 years ago #
  2. crowriver
    Member

    For those who are interested, found some handy documentation photos from the RAILSCOT web site (not to be confused with ScotRail):

    https://www.railscot.co.uk/locationnew.php?loc=Edinburgh%20Gateway

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. kaputnik
    Moderator

    The subway under the A8 from the Gyle Shopping Centre will also provide access for both cycles and pedestrians."

    That is a change, originally I'm sure the underpass was being touted as get-off-and-push only (and closed outwith station operating hours).

    Edinburgh Gateway is a terrible name for a station. I wonder if the bilingual sign will read Gateway Dùn Èideann.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

    "That is a change, originally I'm sure the underpass was being touted as get-off-and-push only (and closed outwith station operating hours)."

    Yes, but are you sure either of those have changed?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  5. kaputnik
    Moderator

    It was quite hard to find (didn't seem properly geolocated on the map), but here are all the planning documents and drawings for the new station; https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/applicationDetails.do?previousCaseUprn=000906466691&previousCaseType=Property&previousKeyVal=KMS443EW03300&activeTab=summary&previousCaseNumber=KMS43MEW03300&keyVal=KR8VH7EW7N000 (or search 09/02589/FUL)

    There's a drawing for the underpass, which is 5.5m wide but appears to have tactiles at either end and glass sliding doors at the station end. Crucially, the access statement from Network Rail says "Cyclists will be required to dismount, but cycles can be taken through the underpass.
    "

    Interestingly, the drawing also states that "only one pedestrian crossing is provided at the new interchange to deter pedestrians from walking in a westerly direction towards the tram depot and away from the interchange". You wonder if that's a deliberate attempt to design the underpass as station access only, and not as a safe and convenient route around the roundabout and under the A8 for through cyclists/pedestrians.

    Further looking through the drawings, there will be a path connection from the A8 pavement (north side) to station, but that ends in "dismount" signs at the station. Interestingly, there appears to be segregated ped/cycle path running right up to the entrance to the underpass on the station side (but with dismount signs for the underpass itself). So you might have to push through the underpass, but it looks like it does provide an off-road link between the Gyle, under the A8 to the pavement route along the north side of the A8.

    There looks to be an aspirational path along the northern boundary of the tram depot from the "West Edinburgh Development Area", but the pavement around the northern perimeter of the roundabout is marked only as "pedestrian route to RBS".

    Posted 8 years ago #
  6. kaputnik
    Moderator

    One final detail, the designs for the station were originally prepared in 2009. It looks like the council put a condition on them in 2010 to revise the access to the station to incorporate an "element of shared use and access". I can't be sure but I think that was planningspeak for "can you design this so you can cycle up to the station please".

    Posted 8 years ago #
  7. cb
    Member

    Thanks for unearthing the plans. Nice to see the layout for the underpass.

    I'm perhaps a bit naïve about these things but I had always assumed that the underpass would sit next to the tram lines. It seemed like a good time to build it when going to all that effort to dig up one of the major arteries into Edinburgh.

    Will they have to do the same for the underpass; or can they just tunnel under?

    The record for major infrastructure changes like this not to incorporate some sensible active travel links at the time of construction (cf. Sheriffhall railway tunnel; tram line bridges) is a bit depressing.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  8. kaputnik
    Moderator

    @cb - I'm assuming the reason there's separate underpasses with some distance between them is to limit the width of each tunneled/dug and covered section; it's probably cheaper and less disruptive to build 2 separate underpasses than one very wide one.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  9. acsimpson
    Member

    The underpass doesn't seem to have been designed for through traffic at all. Although I think Kaputnik is correct that the council forced the issue to make it possible, the plans seem to suggest that to cross the A8 cyclists will have to dismount at the station end of the tunnel and walk a few metres round a sharp corner before getting back on their bikes.

    The angle of the tunnel and long down ramp from the north of the A8 also ensures that it will only be about 20m shorter than heading to the Marriott pedestrian crossing. Depending on starting point I suspect that may still be a more convenient option. I do think that the tunnel will be a huge improvement on walking to the Gyle from Maybury but it's a real shame that they could (as usual) done a much better job, probably without spending any extra money.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  10. stiltskin
    Member

    I find this strangely depressing. It would have been so simple to design in a proper cycling underpass with very little extra effort/cost. They can't even manage that. Is nobody capable of even slightly joined up thinking? Who on earth is going to jump on/off the bike at the corner. So sad.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  11. acsimpson
    Member

    Absolutely. I don't know if the "Glass planar walls" will allow you to see round the bend but putting a sharp hairpin at the bottom of a slope demonstrates total lack of awareness. I think I agree that the cycle lane does need to be on the inside though to avoid pedestrians being forced to cross it, however surely they could have designed a way to make it possible to cycle to/from the cycle racks.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

    "surely they could have"

    Could...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  13. Arellcat
    Moderator

    There's a lot of surely and could when it comes to actually improving things.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  14. crowriver
    Member

    Are we looking at the same thing? There are a whole bunch of revised drawings from 2010 which appear to show a segregated cycle path going right through the underpass and directly to the station. Also another coming from the A8. The only dismount signs are on the approach to the station, it appears. Which is reasonable as there is bike parking there.

    Granted it does not provide a fast, easy cycle link under the A8 for those wanting to avoid a signalled crossing. However it looks usable to me. Maybe I missed something but seems a decent path.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  15. stiltskin
    Member

    it does not provide a fast, easy cycle link under the A8

    Yes. That is the point. It isn't that there is nothing provided at all. It's just they had a completely blank canvas. It really would not have taken very much to provide a good rather than grudgingly adequate-you-will-have-to-dismount-to-use-it cycle facility.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  16. kaputnik
    Moderator

    @crowriver the 2010 drawing I was looking at was "
    21 May 2010, Proposed cycle access detail" which seems to be the most up to date.

    Capture by andy a, on Flickr

    It seems to clearly show the path terminating before going under the road in the underpass.

    There are 2 other comments of note on the drawing;

    "To segregate the pedestrians and the cyclists there will be either a hand rail or feature stone running the length of the paths."

    I really hope the handrail bit is a joke!

    and

    "The paths will be demarcated using stainless steel plaques bolted through the slate with engraved logo of a bike for the cyclepath and a person walking for the footpath. Additional signs highlight the need for cyclists to dismount when entering the pedestrian areas."

    The signs look attractive enough, and completely unsuitable for clearly marking a path.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  17. acsimpson
    Member

    I hadn't noticed the lack of path under the road but my biggest objection was the design of dismounting to get between the A8 path and the underpass.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  18. crowriver
    Member

    Aye kaputnik, on considering the details it does look a bit crap for cycling. Though as an access to the station it's not bad at all compared to some.

    As for a the blank slate that someone mentioned, we;; not quite. The road and railway line were already there. Granted the builders of the tram could have considered a cycle path alongside. They didm't, but then this is not the only instance of such a blinkered vision. There's a six metre drop from the road to the entrance of the underpass, so gradients would be something to deal with in designing any paths.

    One of the aspects of the design I don't understand is why the path is enclosed in glazing shortly before the underpass, and continues in a glazed corridor, airport style. Is this all just a safety thing to keep people away from the tram lines down the slope? Which coincidentally keeps folk out of the rain too...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  19. HankChief
    Member

    One thing that surprises me is how slow this will make the tram in this section. In the space of about a mile you have 4 stops.

    Gyle Shopping centre
    Edinburgh Gateway
    Tram depot (used for staff)
    Gogarburn

    I do wonder if they would be better eliminating the cumulative delay on all passengers from stopping at the tram depot for staff handovers by changing at the new station and giving them all bikes to get back to the depot for their cup of tea...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  20. cb
    Member

    "giving them all bikes to get back to the depot"

    Faster walking I think, it can only be 300m or so.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  21. wingpig
    Member

    "why the path is enclosed in glazing shortly before the underpass"

    To stop things/crap/debris falling on underpass-users?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  22. crowriver
    Member

    @wingpig, good point.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  23. crowriver
    Member

    "One thing that surprises me is how slow this will make the tram in this section"

    The new station stop will also add about 3 or 4 minutes onto train journey times using the Fife line. So Fife circle services, stopping services to/from Dundee, for example.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  24. crowriver
    Member

    Some great photos of the station under construction here:

    http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=128430400&postcount=214

    Posted 8 years ago #
  25. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Has to be said it is quite the temple of steel and glass compared to the 2 bus shelters that pass for a station a few hundred metres up the line at South Gyle.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  26. steveo
    Member

    Or its near contemporary at Edinburgh Park.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    "

    New railway station will be 'gateway' to Edinburgh

    "

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-35363599

    Posted 8 years ago #
  28. kaputnik
    Moderator

    £41m for a gateway is a lot of money... I suppose a lot of it must be going into the groundworks for the station and the underpass, there's precious little else to see apart from 2 platforms, a tramstop, a metal shed over the top and a corridor.

    Even though as a name I would prefer something with a bit more local geographic significance, I think "Gateway" is very apt. A gateway is something you are obliged to go through to get somewhere else, not a destination in its own right.

    For a big-old station like that, it's fairly handicapped by being able to only serve the parochial service of the Fife Circle and (perhaps) Aberdeen and Dundee-bound faster services. Maybe one day they will spend the much-less-than-£41m on the Winchburgh chord to make it a bit more useful for travellers to/from the west.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  29. crowriver
    Member

    "Maybe one day they will spend the much-less-than-£41m on the Winchburgh chord to make it a bit more useful for travellers to/from the west."

    Don't you know there are A9s to dual, and Aberdeen bypasses to build? We can't be spending so much on railways, in fact let's cut them.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  30. chrispaton
    Member

    There's been a lot of talk of the axed Dalmeny chord, but it feels like passengers in the west can already be served by Edinburgh Park in the meantime. Yes, it's another couple of of stops on the tram to get to the airport, but it exists today!

    The real concern I have is complete lack of joined up ticketing. At the moment I can buy a combined rail/bus ticket to Glasgow Airport (example journey) but not a combined rail/tram ticket to Edinburgh Airport. To me that seems like the real impediment to getting more folk from Fife/West to take the train to the airport, and it's not clear to me whether there's any plan to get this sorted :-(

    Posted 8 years ago #

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