Spot all that is wrong with this article, starting with where it is filed...
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Cycling News
Telegraph unimpressive again...
(28 posts)-
Posted 9 years ago #
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Clickbait, ignored based on the title.
Posted 9 years ago # -
London cycling commissioner Andrew Gilligan's comments apply here as well:
"Any piece attacking cycling is guaranteed click bait and if crap freelance journalists need to make a living attacking cycling who am I to stand in their way?"
Posted 9 years ago # -
Why would I want to read an article written by someone stupid and thoughtless?
Posted 9 years ago # -
"Why would I want to read an article written by someone stupid and thoughtless?"
Sometimes it helps to know what 'they' are thinking, are so (perhaps) the 'general public'.
Sometimes it doesn't...
Posted 9 years ago # -
Aye. Know thine enemy.
Though personally I'm sick of fellow cyclists apologising for the behaviour of so-called "reckless, irresponsible" riders. Do we see motorists apologising in a similar manner? No we do not.
Why? Internalised oppression. That's why.
We are so conditioned to believe that cyclists are "inferior" by all the abuse, criticism, etc. directed at us that some give in to the social pressure and start apologising for other people's behaviour, even if they do so by saying "It's not me, it's those guys over there". All the same stuff: kow tow to the motorist majority...
Posted 9 years ago # -
I am not my brothers keeper, If you'd met my brother you'd understand...
Posted 9 years ago # -
No problem with anything written by the journalist as opposed to the subs and headline. Like it or not, car drivers view of us is shaped by their view of them.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I agree with your stance, crowriver.
I'd even go so far as to say that this forum's own "bad cycling" thread is a weakness in what is a war versus the motorised.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I sometimes find the "bad cycling" useful to learn if there is anything I'm doing wrong and can improve.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"I'd even go so far as to say that this forum's own "bad cycling" thread is a weakness"
I think, over time, it has been useful. Some people (on here) condemn all lawbreaking. Some want the law(s) changed (those two are obviously not mutually exclusive!) Some are genuinely concerned about the safety/sanity of some people who happen to ride bicycles.
There are people who think 'if we don't behave, we can't expect drivers to', but I suspect that is a minority view.
Different views on all this are entirely consistent with the way CCE behaves!
Posted 9 years ago # -
In a world where killing cyclists on the road was vaguely unacceptable to the general public, focussing on "our" own faults would be a good thing. But we're not in that world, not by a long shot.
Posted 9 years ago # -
"sometimes find the "bad cycling" useful to learn if there is anything I'm doing wrong and can improve."
Yes, I'm sure many of 'us' have re-thought how we do things after reading various threads.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Articles like this are extremely annoying and I get mighty fed up as being held responsible for every other cyclist.
I don't get held accountable for bad driving though despite the vast majority of accidents and terrible behaviour being carried out by people in cars.
Imagine the outcry if a similar article was written regarding drivers.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Imagine the outcry if a similar article was written regarding drivers.
I think such a campaign would be awesome. Imagine, no more new roads, motorways, dual carriageways, car parks or bridges until every single last one of them drives properly.
*daydreams* :-)
Posted 9 years ago # -
Hey hold on I drive too :) LOL
Posted 9 years ago # -
Imagine if the word 'cyclist' in the article was replaced by 'black person', or 'jew', or 'gay person' or 'woman'.
How would it read then?
Posted 9 years ago # -
I like the fact that it's followed by a survey saying "Should cyclists pay a tax to use Britain's roads?".
*sigh*
Posted 9 years ago # -
There is many aspects of the Telegraph article that are nonsense.
However, there is a valid issue underlying the article.There is a section of the cyclist community for whom road traffic laws are a inconvenience and road sense and mutual respect is too heavy a load.
This is a problem, regardless of infrastructure, everyone on this forum has either carried out or witnessed poor cycling.
This is compounded by the Police showing minimal interest in RTA offences both against and by cyclists.
So who does "police" our cycling companions?
None of us are legally responsible for them, and nor should we feel morally compelled to be so, but
We are in the unique position with cycling that we can have conversations with other road users.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@edd1e_h
Imagine if the word 'cyclist' in the article was replaced by 'black person', or 'jew', or 'gay person' or 'woman'.
How would it read then?
I've long believed that the fact you can't write this stuff about groups defined by race or sexuality is one of the main reasons you see these hate pieces about cyclists.
"Haters gonna hate", as the saying goes. And, as our society becomes more evolved about racial/gender/gay equality, the more the hatred will be directed towards other, unprotected, minorities - which, in this country - includes cyclists.
Posted 9 years ago # -
If someone drives badly, does someone associate it with other drivers, if someone walks badly does someone associate it with other walkers. The reason people may associate bad cycling with other cyclists is because its small minority who cycle. If a small minority drove, then people may associate one person’s bad driving with another if not a driver.
Almost everybody may walk the majority of adults may drive sometimes, yet the majority do not cycle.
The reason people may judge the actions of one cyclist as those of all may be the same effect that other minority groups encounter.
This effect would reduce the more people cycle in the Netherlands I would doubt if a cyclist passed a red light then people would judge a typical cyclist in a negative way. As the cyclist would be no more typical than if a driver here, or a walker walking badly on the sidewalk.
Cyclists may suffer a similar effect as a minority group the psychological effect that associates the actions of with 1 with a group then the associated confirmation bias and what not.
In the same way if ginger hair people were 2 percent of the population and someone got robbed by a ginger hair person then someone may associate ginger hair with being robbers, if ginger hair people were 50 percent of the population then people would likely know many more ginger hair people that were not, but more than that if a characteristic is less common then may be stronger association it may have the psychological effect of being more defining possibly by standing out more in relation to everything else may miss associate more with an independent variable possibly. The bigger the perceived difference from base group the more likely to associate the independent variable that one member of the group may have with the group or so the theory goes if recall.I suppose could be argued the same mechanism that minority group/ activity may suffer from the mis association with the actions of 1 etc being assoicated with the group.
The more people cycle the less likely this miss association would take place possibly.
In the Netherlands, one bad cyclist is like one bad walker or driver may be, the action of 1 not defining the perception of the group as a whole as many people cycle.
Posted 9 years ago # -
However, there is a valid issue underlying the article.
There is a section of the driving community for whom road traffic laws are a inconvenience and road sense and mutual respect is too heavy a load.
This is a problem, regardless of infrastructure, everyone on this forum has either carried out or witnessed poor driving.*
This is compounded by the Police showing minimal interest in RTA offences both against and by drivers.
So who does "police" our driving companions?
None of us are legally responsible for them, and nor should we feel morally compelled to be so, but
*apologies to those on the forum who don't drive.
Posted 9 years ago # -
@fimm I was going to paraphrase as Who does "police" our walking companions? but you beat me to it :-)
Posted 9 years ago # -
There are people who have no regard for the consequence of their actions - some cycle, some drive, some walk and so on. I think we just have to live with that.
I cycle because it is the best way for me to get around. I'm not on some crusade to change people's behaviour. Calling-out drivers (in charge of two tonnes of fast moving metal) or scofflaw cyclists is unlikely to do anything other than get people's backs up or place yourself in possible danger.
I hope I set a good example when I'm on my bike - adhering to the law whenever possible. I can't see what else I could reasonably be expected to do.
Posted 9 years ago # -
what else I could reasonably be expected to do.
drive...
/een mentality.
Posted 9 years ago # -
The principal reason I have an issue with other people's poor cycling is that it is quite often thrown back at me in order to minimise the injustice done to me by some driver. To paraphrase "why I should I be bothered about what I've just done to you (even though it was dangerous/threatening/thoughtless/clearly wrong!) when all you cyclists break the law anyway". I know it doesn't in any way excuse the driver's actions, but it does (probably entirely unreasonably) make me wish they weren't able to say that.
I think Ed1 makes some interesting points.
Posted 9 years ago # -
I note all the comments on minorities and i think ED1 makes good points.
@Fimm, yes indeed there is absolutely no denying there is bad driving, but the point of this chain was the Telegraph article re cyclists.
I could write screeds about poor driving, but there isnt enough time !!@Morningsider, don't consider this to be a crusade, but if the world was perfect and i could cycle from A to B without hassle, fine but it isn't.
The most interesting non-reaction to my previous post, is no one seems to have an opinion about the inclination, capabilities and reactions of the Police, which IMO are very poor when it comes to protecting cyclists
Posted 9 years ago # -
"no one seems to have an opinion about the inclination, capabilities and reactions of the Police"
I think there are opinions - but few positive expectations.
Posted 9 years ago #
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