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"Transport Minister has designs on continental cycling projects"

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  1. "So you have no concerns at all that the SNP are becoming an overwhelmingly dominant political force in Scotland?"

    yes I do. The are a long long way off being "disturbing" though.

    "No anxieties over the relative lack of debate of the SNP's track record in government, policies for Holyrood, relationships with business interests?

    No, no anxieties.

    I wholeheartedly disagree that there is a relative lack of debate about all those things.

    They are raised, I think its fair to say, on a daily basis. So much so that they are increasing less debated and increasing ignored.

    If you want something to be taken seriously and debated it has to have substance. It also helps if those raising the debate have any credibility themselves.

    It's simply not good enough to keep crying wolf (or in this case "SNP bad")

    Take recent events re the bridge. All that effort by opposition politicians.activists (and their media pals) to try and slaughter the SNP failed because it had little or no substance.

    If simply hating the SNP and attacking them on a daily basis is now the raison d'etre of the labour party in scotland, why not stick to a real issue and hammer them over Police Scotland?

    Of course, if I were to voice the fact I am bored to death with labours single SNP BAD Manifesto, they'd retort by calling me a nationalist (with strong inferences I am an SNP voting nazi(neither of which has ever been true))

    Aye, the SNP are a boring as hell unadventurous government, but thats probably better than a petulant childish opposition

    Posted 9 years ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    OK

    So which of these is mostly true?

    'Most voters in Scotland are content with the SNP's way of doing things'

    'Most voters would like a party they would be happy to vote for instead of the SNP'

    If the first, that's democracy - however much you think the voters are deluded or complacent.

    If the second then it really is up to other parties to get their acts together OR for some mass movement to create a new party.

    Don't mind which, but until it happens (or the SNP implodes) the SNP is likely to be in charge at Holyrood for at least one more session and perhaps leading more LAs from 2017.

    Another alternative is for all parties not called the SNP to agree to put up a single joint candidate for constituency seats and something equally co-operative for the List.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    One problem with 'holding the Government to account' is that (I'm told) the original intention/expectation was that the Committee system would be stronger.

    If that's the case I don't know why - or what would need to be done to improve it, but presumably easier (and perhaps more palatable to the public) than a second chamber(?)

    Posted 9 years ago #
  4. crowriver
    Member

    "It's simply not good enough to keep crying wolf (or in this case "SNP bad")"

    Hmm. I see you've gone native.
    Using the term that SNP evangelists utilise to deflect any criticism of their party. Decrying any critics as unionists.

    I have to disagree that criticisms of the SNP lack substance. Somehow the criticisms get ignored or dismissed by the SNP, and folk seem content to take that. there seems to be a complacency which sees the SNP as the least worst option, which is simply not true.
    Even if it were, why have they been handed such unprecedented political dominance by the electorate? Just on the basis of "they'll do"? No, there's more going on here.

    Politics has polarised since indyref, and positions seem to have hardened among the "45". Perhaps this explains the talismanic status of the SNP, and the willingness of voters to turn a blind eye to their faults.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  5. crowriver
    Member

    "One problem with 'holding the Government to account' is that (I'm told) the original intention/expectation was that the Committee system would be stronger.

    If that's the case I don't know why - or what would need to be done to improve it, but presumably easier (and perhaps more palatable to the public) than a second chamber(?)"

    The Committee system at Holyrood lacks teeth, and this problem has worsened with the SNP majority, and the strong party discipline which means MSPs are toeing the party line instead of doing their job, which is to scrutinise legislation thoroughly.

    Patrick Harvie has written on exactly this issue:

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/13208305.Scrutiny_at_Holyrood_amounts_to_no_more_than_a_government_marking_its_own_work/

    Posted 9 years ago #
  6. patrick harvie is one of the main reasons I joined the green party a few years back.

    He speaks well, seems honest, which I doubt the vast majority of politicians are, and talks a lot of sense most of the time

    He has never ASAIK described Scotland as a one party state. Probably because he wouldn't then be taken seriously.

    "gone native" LOL!

    Posted 9 years ago #
  7. HankChief
    Member

  8. acsimpson
    Member

    City Centre to West Edinburgh Urban Cycling Corridor

    City of Edinburgh Council

    This project is focussed on making cycling an attractive travel choice in one of the key urban corridors in Scotland. It is part of the Council’s strategy to accommodate Edinburgh’s future growth in a sustainable way while adding to the city’s quality of life. The project would deliver a joined-up cycle route from Edinburgh city centre to the western edge of the city, linking to some of Edinburgh’s biggest generators of local journeys and integrating with both tram and rail. New infrastructure would be focused on catering for people who are put off cycling by heavy and fast traffic. Routes would use protected on-street cycle tracks, quiet 20mph streets, or high quality cycleways/footpaths. Significant public realm enhancements and improvements in provision for pedestrians are integrated into the proposals. New infrastructure delivery would be reinforced by a supporting smarter choices programme."

    I wonder exactly what this will entail? The inclusion of quiet 20mph streets and cycleways suggests it isn't going to go directly along any of the arterial roads to the west.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  9. gembo
    Member

    Fair number of arterial routes from west Edinburgh to near the city centre exist already. WoL path best when dry, canal towpath, stenhouse path, pink hill route from corstorphine through to murrayfield. Range of off and on road options. So if it is to be more than some signs there will need to be a will to remove cars from the city centre? I do not see that happening. The SNP love cars (I am sure labour and tories do too). SNP will achieve big majorities in any first past the post election with 37per cent of the electoral roll. I have had thoughtful discussion with former colleague who works for them now about the need for the SNP to be more pluralistic. I mean if they are ever to achieve the one objective of independence. The SNP could in fact canvass for labour. They could say Scotland is a country with at least two left of centre parties yu can choose from (maybe even four or five) whereas England has none (or maybe one or two). This pluralism would encourage the 63 per Cent of the electoral roll wh do not vote for them to consider doing so? But this is not what the SNP is doing. They are maintaining strict discipline ( might get harder if rumours of militant tendency style entryism are true) they are seeking to dominate without opposition. There will be a little at holyrood from the list MSPs but not much. I think Nicola sturgeon is sensible but like all other politicians she does not get everything right. This means it is important to have an opposition but this is unlikely any time soon. This in turn means cycling policy unlikely to be anything radical.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  10. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @gembo

    Surely you are making the case for militant entryism by bicyclists? If so I am with you.

    The poor SNP are revelling in being popular after sixty years of being regarded as smelly cranks. Maybe we cyclists can understand this as no one else?

    A plurality of coherent parties would be wonderful.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  11. gembo
    Member

    All,politicians need to cycle more for sure. We could become the cycle nats rather than the cyber nats?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  12. sallyhinch
    Member

    I had a look at what I think was the E-W route at the Cycling Scotland conference. It was a wee bit wiggly but it did involve taking space from cars to create contraflow tracks. The main thing is not the wiggliness on the map, it's whether you're having to stop start all the time - if there's decent signalling to allow you to cross the major roads then a back streets route can be an improvement on an arterial route and certainly more pleasant and with nicer air.

    POP view http://pedalonparliament.org/christmas-comes-but-once-a-year/

    Posted 9 years ago #
  13. gembo
    Member

    @sallyhinch the pinkhill backstreet route in middle of day travelling west east is one of my favourite routes through Edinburgh. It flows nicely cutting across the direction of car travel for the most part.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  14. Stickman
    Member

    @gembo Agreed: the upcoming resurfacing/lighting of the WoL path beside Murrayfield will make it better and I've still got a fantasy plan that Baird Drive could be made one-way with a segregated path to get to the Balgreen path, but it is fairly pleasant. When/if the segregated path along Roseburn Terace/West Coates is built then you can get all the way from Haymarket to the canal without having to deal with traffic.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  15. crowriver
    Member

    "They are raised, I think its fair to say, on a daily basis. So much so that they are increasing less debated and increasing ignored.

    If you want something to be taken seriously and debated it has to have substance. It also helps if those raising the debate have any credibility themselves."

    I think there is something else at work here. What you call 'credibility' seems much more of an emotional commitment on the part of the SNP core vote, at least: rather as Labour voters used to behave in 'the old days' of Labour's hegemony in Scotland.

    Simply put, if they don't like the people conveying the message, they are not prepared to give it credence. Tories, clearly, not trusted by the majority in Scotland, therefore their criticisms are, as you put it ignored, whether they have substance or not. Labour now seem to be in a similar position to the Tories in Scotland, electoral support having been reduced to their core vote. Lib Dems have the northern isles. Any criticism from these parties has been 'tarnished' or is apparently not to trusted in the eyes of many 'floating voters' given various political shenanigans over the past 12 years.

    You may say, but other more credible sources have been making criticisms (e.g.. my and your own party the Greens), but all too often these sources do not get widespread media exposure. The media prefer to see the political divide in terms of the post-indyref polarisation between nationalist and unionist, with the Greens in the nationalist camp, therefore criticism from Greens either does not fit with this simplistic binary (some say tribal) view, or the media prefer to report the opposition from the unionist angle to up the unionist ante. As we know, for the sake of the Cause no dissent is allowed from within the SNP itself. The SNP as the party of government naturally have a lot of access to media through official announcements, etc. which are nearly always reported.

    "Take recent events re the bridge. All that effort by opposition politicians.activists (and their media pals) to try and slaughter the SNP failed because it had little or no substance."

    I could not disagree more. The failure of the bridge is a direct consequence of decisions taken under the watch of this government. The criticism that I have heard was based on the facts, that the bridge's current state is a result of delays to recommended maintenance, issues which have been known about for years.

    So it was not the message, but from whose mouths the message came (or rather whose mouths the media chose to report) that seems to been the problem. That's the 'credibility' gap you were referring to, which in my view is a product both of political polarisation/tribalism and inherent media bias.

    So we arrive at the incredulous situation where the SNP are now trumpeting the 'early' reopening of the bridge as a great triumph, despite being caused by their own government's negligence of their duty of care to maintain the structure. I've even seen various 'Yes' group postings circulating on social media with a group photo of the Amey workers on the bridge as heroes. Okay, they did a great job but the SNP sanctioned message ignores that this maintenance was recommended nearly a decade ago!

    Of course the SNP narrative on the bridge suits them. It suits the government for people to see it as a structure falling apart, "just one of those things", can't be helped, all the more reason why they're spending so much and working so hard building than big new bridge right next to it. Except of course the bridge's deterioration could very much have been helped: abolishment of tolls, delays to maintenance, privatisation of maintenance, have all contributed to greater damage and the recent closure.

    Which we can all hear about in the media, but because it's coming from the mouths of unionists, the SNP don't want to hear it, will not admit they might have some culpability. Neither, it seems do its supporters. Why should they admit they might be wrong about anything? They're popular, they're in charge, they can portray opponents and critics as "traitors" to Scotland. Because, after all, the SNP are Stronger For Scotland. Even when they're not, enough people will vote for them anyway.

    Posted 9 years ago #

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