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Roseburn to Leith consultation begins (and the debate continues!) CCWEL

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  1. Morningsider
    Member

    Think we are being a little harsh on the Council here. We have trams, bus lane cameras, Sunday parking charges (soon) and city-wide 20mph. Things are changing and people have had to stick their necks out to get this done - at some personal/political cost.

    The fact there is a debate about Roseburn-Leith shows how far things have came. There is political will to get this done and the route is likely to be built (hopefully to a decent standard).

    Yes, the dinosaurs are out in force - they don't like that they don't have it all their won way any more. I'm sure that some of them are wondering whether that bright spot in the sky, that seems to be getting bigger every day, doesn't bode well for their future.

    I doubt the early days of substantial cycle infrastructure development in any city have ever gone easily, or without vocal opposition.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  2. crowriver
    Member

    "We have trams, bus lane cameras, Sunday parking charges (soon) and city-wide 20mph. Things are changing and people have had to stick their necks out to get this done - at some personal/political cost."

    I'm not criticising the council. What I'm highlighting is the huge outcry that seems to accompany these measures: often stoked by hostile stories and manufactured controversy in local and Scottish media. The changes have been implemented in the teeth of vociferous opposition, and often watered down or truncated as a result of that opposition. That goes for the trams, bus lane cameras, Sunday parking charges and 20mph zones. *

    I suppose I was flagging all this up because of the assumption in Voyes' piece that it was somehow self-evident that Edinburgh should be more like Copenhagen. 'We' may indeed think along similar lines, but the reason this hasn't happened (yet) is because of the strength of opposition, and the relative weakness of campaigners for change.

    * - I know it's all a bit more complicated than purely vocal opposition, but the fact is the trams don't go to Leith, let alone Newhaven; a number of bus lane cameras were removed for catching "too many" local residents driving in the bus lanes; roads were removed from 20mph plans after objections from motoring interests; Sunday parking charges restricted to afternoons after objections from (some) church groups...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  3. Rosie
    Member

    There's a saying in Malaysia that every grain of rice is a drop of someone's sweat. Well, every yard of cycling infrastructure was about 2 hours of campaigning. A dropped kerb may equal 3 emails. A cycle rack - however you get the drift...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  4. SRD
    Moderator

    "A dropped kerb may equal 3 emails. "

    well, that's a gross under-estimation as older readers of this forum can tell you...

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9576#post-101967

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6354#post-184262

    Posted 8 years ago #

  5. Morningsider
    Member

    crowriver - I agree. I just felt it was worth noting that things are improving and that "our" hard work is paying off, despite the usual protests. A few years ago the QBC was trumpeted at a local and national level as a great achievement (most embarrassingly at a cycling conference sponsored by the Dutch embassy). I doubt that would happen now.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  6. Rosie
    Member

    @SRD - sorry for estimating the campaign hours labour.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  7. SRD
    Moderator

    @rosie no worries. You'd think it would only take. Few emails, especially when on th NCN, but no....

    Wish I could find the pics of us actually toasting it with Scotmid's finest...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  8. chdot
    Admin

    On the thread you already posted!

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9576&page=2#post-102614

    Posted 8 years ago #

  9. crowriver
    Member

    Drunken cyclists quaffing fizz on a public footpath! Disgraceful!

    :-D

    Posted 8 years ago #

  10. ih
    Member

    Two huge (circular cross section) steel piles driven into that bank on Roseburn Terrace opposite Tesco and two terraces bulldozed into the bank. Anyone have a clue what that's about? The piles are at either end of the bank, same distance from the road so I don't think they're connected with that scheme to put a mega advertising hoarding there. They look like they will support something, but they're not the same height. Curious.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  11. stiltskin
    Member

    Electric advertising hoardings

    Posted 8 years ago #

  12. kaputnik
    Moderator

    What Stiltskin says. I think they will each be angled at 45 degrees to the road, with one facing up towards Haymarket and the other towards Roseburn Street / Terrace. This makes sure drivers are equally distracted in either direction.

    If I was one of the flats in the bar above the Roseburn Bar I'd be seriously worried about depreciation.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  13. chdot
    Admin

    "I'd be seriously worried about depreciation"

    It'd be fine, you could sell it to one of the people responsible (for a premium) so they could gaze at their handywork.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  14. Rosie
    Member

    A woman who lives opposite was at the Murrayfield CC very upset about the light shining into her flat.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  15. neddie
    Member

    I think it is despicable that CEC are selling the amenity of our city to the highest bidder.

    What will happen when the electronic-advertising-distracted driver veers off the road and into the segregated cycle lane / shop frontages / pavement?

    Why aren't PG and Murrayfield CC up in arms about elderly folks getting run over, etc...?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  16. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Genuine question, does anyone have the stats for drivers veering off the road, or indeed just incidents, around advertising billboards?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  17. Rosie
    Member

    Murrayfield CC are very up in arms about this. They gave the Cllrs who attended a total going over. "Disgraceful" and "shameful" were some of the terms.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  18. neddie
    Member

    Genuine question, does anyone have the stats for drivers veering off the road, or indeed just incidents, around advertising billboards?

    I imagine that no one has donefinanced a study on this because 'they' don't want to know the answer.

    In any case, with zero reporting of near-misses and massive under-reporting of minor bumps, how would a meaningful study be done?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  19. neddie
    Member

    "Disgraceful" and "shameful" were some of the terms

    Good for them.

    I also pity the residents of Sighthill / A71 corridor - I bet they don't have such a vocal CC (if at all)

    Posted 8 years ago #

  20. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Someone tried in 2003.

    It's interesting (certainly in a skim, then reading the summary).

    But in any case, under-reporting happens no matter whether those minor things happen near billboards or not - but if there was an appreciable effect (which there may be!) of billboards on safety then of those incidents that are reported then a higher proportion should take place near billboards surely? (not that it's something that will then be noted I suppose, though weren't there adverts pulled in the past for Wonderbra and Opium cos poor chaps couldn't keep their eyes on the road?).

    Posted 8 years ago #

  21. Morningsider
    Member

    WC - The Swedish National Road and Transport Research Institute has carried out some research on electronic billboards. They didn't find any hard evidence that they impacted on road safety, but recommended more research into visual distraction before allowing them to be introduced.

    Details at: http://www.vti.se/en/publications/effects-of-billboards-on-traffic-safety--a-study-on-the-motorway-e4-in-stockholm/

    Posted 8 years ago #

  22. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Makes sense Morningsider, thanks.

    I've certainly got a lot of sympathy with people who live facing the monstrosities, but I just wondered if the safety aspect was just received wisdom (albeit based on a healthy dose of common sense) or actually backed up by evidence / studies.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  23. Roibeard
    Member

    Genuine question, does anyone have the stats for drivers veering off the road, or indeed just incidents, around advertising billboards?

    I think there's been some real-world experimentation, and certain adverts appeared to have caused collisions. You know the ones, which advertise women's clothing, to men.

    I can confirm that I've known some real-world women who have caused collisions. One on George Street, where the driver mounted a roundabout, requiring much grinding to extract their vehicle, since you ask. Caused much merriment on the street as the pedestrians knew that his eyes were other than on the road...

    In the interests of balance, I have performed first aid on a cyclist as a result of a similar set of circumstances!

    Robert

    Posted 8 years ago #

  24. PS
    Member

    I'm waiting for the day that an enterprising local hacks into their nearby billboard and starts playing Call of Duty (or worse) through it...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  25. Roibeard
    Member

    Perhaps I should add, I'm not suggesting that we all adopt the burka in the interests of road safety...

    Robert

    Posted 8 years ago #

  26. The Boy
    Member

    @WC, not stats but I used to travel Stevenson Road 5 days a week and rarely a day went by without someone running the read at the ped crossing outside Wickes. I once saw 6 cars sail through before anyone stopped.

    There may reasons for this other than massive TV that has been placed in the optimum place to distract drivers, but I've been against these screens ever since.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  27. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    That certainly ties in with the study I found, whereby positioning them at junctions etc. was to be frowned upon. Like at a major intersection on a main road without a segregated cycle lane for instance...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  28. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    The driver of this car was obviously in the market for a new house...

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/corstorphine/car-ploughs-into-shop-window-1-4152723

    Posted 8 years ago #

  29. The Boy
    Member

    Either that or they had in the past dealt with Mov8s solicitors...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  30. wingpig
    Member

    I've seen a cyclist wobble because they were watching the westernmost Seafield board and not their position relative to the kerb. What we really need is a control Edinburgh without moving video billboards, or for them to be deactivated on alternate days for a few years whilst data are collected.

    Posted 8 years ago #

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