I know we're way off topic, but how about channelling MORE traffic down the WAR and off Fountainbridge and Dalry. Fountainbridge fully segregated cycle way, wider pavements, trees, etc etc. Dalry would need more thought.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Roseburn - Canal link (new Dalry route)
(612 posts)-
Posted 8 years ago #
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I think that encouraging more traffic on to the WAR to relieve roads like Fountainbridge, Dalry, Roseburn is the same fallacy as building bypasses.
By encouraging more traffic on to the WAR, all that will happen is that the bottlenecks (aka more traffic) will be displaced elsewhere, and the traffic on Fountainbridge, Dalry, Roseburn will soon return to former levels.
The way to reduce traffic is to do it multilaterally, i.e. reduce the WAR to 1 lane/20mph (and/or bus/cycle corridor) and to restrict traffic travelling through (but not into) Fountainbridge, Dalry, Roseburn.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Ultimately the traffic on the WAR has to come from somewhere and go somewhere. It's really just a high(er)-speed conduit between the Gorgie / Dalry area and Lothian Road / the West End. It does nothing for the environment or livability of the places at either end, so I don't think it's helpful to think of it in terms as a bypass for Foutnainbridge / lower Polwarth.
Posted 8 years ago # -
reduce the WAR to 1 lane/20mph (and/or bus/cycle corridor)
The eastern section already has bus lanes in each direction for part of its length. The embankment of the old CR/LMSR feels pretty narrow to be modifying to accommodate a cycling route as well. I'd not enjoy riding it unless the speed limit was dropped to 20mph (and we all know how that goes...).
Posted 8 years ago # -
I was very impressed by most of this consultation. I regularly cycle from near the canal to Roseburn, and the new bridges would massivley improve my journey.
However, I am worried that they will do something half-baked with the WAR when they could do something good. There was mention at the end of the consultation of removing the underpass altogether, and I think if they do that, then they need to civilise the road with a 20mph speed limit.
Did you notice that the cycle path alongside the WAR to Haymarket is proposed as a shared cycle/pedestrian? I strongly recommended a pavement and seperate, segregated cycle path. Slow the traffic on the WAR and take a proper amount of space from the dual carrigeway to make a real segregated cycle path. A shared use path there would be a terrible wasted oportunity.Posted 8 years ago # -
I really don't want to spoil anyone's festivities, but the frothers are out on the EEN objecting to the proposed new route. The Telfer Subway is described as "much loved".
Posted 8 years ago # -
Stickman - be fair, judging by the smell it is much loved by those caught short on the way home from the pub.
Posted 8 years ago # -
There was a busker there who whistled to a guitar for years who still turns up. Otherwise it's a creepy place to be alone in and there was that awful rape a few years ago, in the afternoon.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7894890.stm
Bloke at the consultation told me that men were far more pro the subway than women, which didn't surprise me.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I was slightly rude to a good friend of mine who appeared to be suggesting that there was nothing wrong with the underpass because it is well used, on the Spokes page on Facebook. To be fair to him, his response was that I'd misunderstood what he was saying.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Well there are clearly a lot of people who don't like using it -
Posted 8 years ago # -
yes, someone I respect on has also suggested on FB that it needs 'saving'. waiting to see how others respond before deciding what to say...
Posted 8 years ago # -
@SRD - deliberately misunderstand: "Saving" as in religious sense: convert to new and shiny and light and not dark and sinful. Sounds perfect!
Posted 8 years ago # -
@livd possibly too subtle...
Really shocked how emotional people are getting about this. I was fairly neutral/undecided but their reaction is driving me against it.
Would be a shame if we ended up with two inadequate and conflict causing solutions because people are wedded to that abysmal design.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@SRD
Perhaps people who grew up in Dalry are nostalgic for their first sneaky drink/fumble in its shelter?How can anyone love an underpass? A bridge yes, but an underpass?
Posted 8 years ago # -
No-one would design the Telfer Subway today. It's inaccessible to people in wheelchairs and with mobility problems, a poor cycle route, magnet for anti-social behaviour and expensive to maintain. Groups of people clearly avoid using it due to concerns about their safety. These people might not shout the loudest, but their views should not simply be dismissed or they be advised to "man-up".
An overground alternative is clearly the better option. With the added bonus of helping to transform the Western Approach Road from an urban race track to a street that is integrated with its surroundings. Fountainbridge is transforming fast. It used to be all but impermeable to pedestrians and cyclists due to the large industrial sites and the railway. Now it is slowly opening up and I see this as an important step in that process.
It is worth remembering that the WAR was effectively planned as the eastern end of the M8. That never happened and will never happen. Time to turn it from a barrier to movement (other than high speed vehicle traffic) to an integral part of the city.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@Morningsider
Well said. I re-iterate my tale of once getting badly lost attempting a traverse of Fountainbridge/Gorgie. Thought I could get through by a rather dodgy method - osmosis - and wound up traversing a camp of friendly junkies living in a shipping container. Pushed the bike up an embankment and nearly fainted with delight to find a gravel-filled canal. (It was actually the WAR shut for resurfacing but I was so disorientated I could see no other way of rationalising it.)
Posted 8 years ago # -
Thanks morningsider. So much more effective than I could have put it.
Although in response my interlocutor asks, to what extent is this 'reopening' up of Fountainbridge is being planned, and to what extent it is ad-hoc. Good point.
Posted 8 years ago # -
In the Scotsman comments is a link to a petition again the entire route: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/petition-against-the-west-coates-cycle-track
Alongside the usual complaints (removing parking will hurt businesses, removing lanes will increase congestion) they're arguing the existing NCN1 route is a better/safer option.
To me, this argument suggests a misunderstanding as the existing NCN1 route is nowhere near the answer to mass transit and accessible cycling.
How can we convince people this isn't a "selfish few cyclists hurting the rest of us for their own gain" but a plan to make the city center more accessible/pleasant for everyone?
Posted 8 years ago # -
There are two signatures on that petition from "Jeremy Balfour" and "Frank Ross". I really hope that these two local councillors have not signed it and someone is mischief making.
Edit: just checked Frank Ross's Twitter feed and he has indeed signed it. Incredibly disappointing.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"
How can we convince people this isn't a "selfish few cyclists hurting the rest of us for their own gain" but a plan to make the city center more accessible/pleasant for everyone?
"
We can't
And shouldn't have to
For all 'we' (and others) complain about the council, at least parts of it recognise the importance/value of this sort of thing - it is after all council policy to encourage cycling.
As such you'd hope that a senior Councillor in the ruling coalition would be more supportive...
Posted 8 years ago # -
Par for the course for Cllr Ross I'm afraid. He sees himself as a representative of the business community. An SNP style Tory, basically. Balfour's a real Tory: the one who was caught playing games on his iPad in a council meeting.....also a governor of Fettes Colege.
Probably not worth wasting any time on these two: focus on your other councillors.
Posted 8 years ago # -
SRD - pretty much all planned. The Council's Second Local Development Plan's (1) Fountainbridge development principles include the following:
"• create a layout which integrates with adjoining neighbourhoods in Dalry, Tollcross and Viewforth
• improve north-south linkages, in particular provide a strong pedestrian/cycle link to Haymarket that reduces the barrier effect of the West Approach Road
• create new public spaces and streetscape consistent with the approved Fountainbridge Public Realm Strategy"I would argue that the Roseburn-Canal link is a great, and rare, example of the Council successfully planning for mobility. This is not all happening by accident.
The new developments on Fountainbridge are creating routes through the once monolithic brewery site. It would be nice to see them turn a face to the WAR and create a real street front - which has not really happened so far.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"a representative of the business community"
Clearly not a very good one, as the evidence suggests that bike lanes increase retail activity. You would think that he would therefore be supporting these plans.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Aye, but look at his priorities, set out in that interview above: marketing Edinburgh; Business Improvement Districts; a city centre begging ban (!!!); and a shortage of office space in the city (!!).
Narrow-minded in the extreme, in other words.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Made the mistake of asking Cllr Ross why he signed the petition. Was accused of being narrow minded and told that *all* local businesses oppose the plan.
What a dispiriting end to 2015.
Posted 8 years ago # -
At stickman, cheer up all local businesses always oppose the plan. But most, except the poster guy at Haymarket come round to the idea. E.g. Trams are bad, really bad well ok not that bad, err actually they are quite good, I might have a shot, the tourists like them, business has picked up etc.
We need a charm offensive, not to the businesses as such as the earlier poster nailed it - businesses do not care about how their customers arrive (on foot after walking or parking round the corner etc) they just need to be able to park right out side and for their delivery driver to be able to do so too.
Local people need to learn to love their bike route, the pupils can adopt a bit to sweep clean or draw wee faces on etc. Humanity will prevail. The future is not frothing red faced men in blazers and slacks. Unless the frothing and redness has been caused by a brisk cycle on a segregated bit of infrastructure. Chin up.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Cheers gembo - wise words. I'm not usually so easily dispirited!
Posted 8 years ago # -
Is there parking being removed? Or re-organised ? if so, I bet council has done a traffic survey. In Tollcross it was striking how little some loading bays were being used - data talks. On leith walk, the issue about 'parking' was all about parking for the hops, not their customers, as others have said. The issue is not number of spaces but turn over.
gembo is right. Charm offensive needed. Stickman, would you be up to writing an oped for the EEN or Sctosman? They love that stuff.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Not done anything like that before, but could be persuaded....maybe next year ;-)
Posted 8 years ago #
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