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Avoid FRB tomorrow

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  1. minus six
    Member

    They really ought to WANT to facilitate bikes on the bridge

    Agreed. But its no surprise that no one gives a hoot.

    Only oddballs cycle more than a couple of miles at at time, after all. And in winter...? They should be grateful for the respite.

    I'd say its demoralising, but that's already my daily experience on this route anyway, even though it remains personally rewarding, whatever the weather.

    there should be no real reason not to have one side, as was the practice until the closure, open for all walking and cycling traffic, and the other side taken over for the works activity

    I'll repeat what i said the other day - they don't want to consider allowing cyclists because they use both lanes as a one way system for maintenance vehicles. Northbound vehicles on the westside lane, and southbound vehicles on the eastside lane. We just get in the way of that.

    These aren't actually bike lanes in their eyes - they are lanes primarily for their maintenance vehicles that they have grudgingly shared with cyclists. That been my experience of it for years.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  2. kaputnik
    Moderator

    @Tulyar surely there must be a more efficient way to make use of the Class 68 / 6 x Mk.II rakes rather than have them doing two full round trips to Motherwell and Back a day carrying nothing but fresh air?!
    Must be feasible for the loco to run around at Millerhill (like the 67s used to do) or even Craigentinny?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  3. paddyirish
    Member

    A new integrated travel plan to be launched today. Assume details will be here.

    I'd say it will be even money on whether cyclists get a mention...

    Posted 9 years ago #
  4. Rosie
    Member

    Saw this on Facebook:-

    The Forth Road Bridge
    To those who are saying "why was this problem not picked up during inspections", let me offer you this:

    The part that has failed is called a "truss end link" There are 8 of them (I think) on the bridge, two at each end of each main carriageway deck (the long span in the middle) where they join the main tower. they don't really hold the deck up (that's what those great big cables are for!) but they locat the decks against the towers to make sure they are straight and level.

    In February 2009, a report was presented to the Forth Bridge Board saying that the truss end links were showing signs of being overstressed. At that time, they decided to defer the works until after they had carried out the repairs and dehumidification of the main cables. That's fair enough.
    They expected to start the work on the truss end links in 2010/11, and even put a notice out inviting tenders for the work in 2010. The tender process was then cancelled.

    Then in 2013, the Board were told that the truss end links were one of three projects to be tendered in 2013/14. That was again deferred in early 2014 because of Government funding cuts. At that time, the Board were to,d that deferral of these projects would increase the risk to the long term structural integrity of the bridge and when the works are eventually carried out, the cost will be greater than if they were caught in time.

    Never was the phrase "A stitch in time" more appropriate.
    They also estimate that apart from the works themselves (which was less than 3 million for all 3 projects at that time, but what they have now is a very difficult repair), this closure is likely to cost the Scottish economy 50 million.

    Now I am obviously biased because I am an engineer not a politician, but does anybody now still think those "budget cuts" were a worthwhile saving?

    But who do they go to when it all goes wrong? That will be the engineers again, to come up with a transport plan, to make alternative routes work, and to look at alternative transport modes.

    But there's a problem. I was involved in intensive destination surveys at the bridge 20 years ago, and at that time, we found that half of the people travelling to Edinburgh city centre, already travelled by train. We also found (contrary to the view of the councils) that only about a third of the traffic (I think it was even less than that but my memory is failing!) on the bridge at that time was going into central Edinburgh. A huge proportion was going to West Lothian, Glasgow, Lanarkshire etc, or around Edinburgh to get to Midlothian, East Lothian and the borders etc.
    So more trains help, but they do not get more than about a third of the traffic to where they want to be.

    So no matter how many more trains, hovercrafts, ferries, water-ski boats, coracles etc you provide between Fife and Edinburgh, you will still have most of the traffic still crossing at Kincardine, because they need the car to complete the onward journey.

    And freight. How do you get those goods across (and the answer isn't "trains" because again, they are going all over the place, not just to central Edinburgh). That'll be Kincardine again, then.

    So the engineers are left to make the most of this. I'm not involved, so it's nothing to do with me, but don't blame the guys that sort these messes out. Look above under "budget cuts".

    https://www.facebook.com/AndrewCarrieTrafficAndTransportation/posts/937205549681615

    Posted 9 years ago #
  5. LaidBack
    Member

    Sustrans of course will be involved as it is NCN1... maybe?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  6. Rosie
    Member

    @LaidBack - now that's a point. It's the NCN equivalent of the M8. I wonder if they will be consulted?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  7. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Sustrans currently says to catch a train or go via Kincardine:

    http://www.sustrans.org.uk/scotland/national-cycle-network/route-news/route-closures-and-diversions#1forthroadbridge

    Posted 9 years ago #
  8. paddyirish
    Member

    @Arellcat, that is clear, as is this

    Posted 9 years ago #
  9. Tulyar
    Member

    Suggest that a few folk lobby Stagecoach East of Scotland to relax/promote the acceptance of bikes in the underfloor hold of the coaches, so that people who previously cycled across can catch the coach (at Ferry Toll - where it is safest to load and at nominated places on the South side)

    It will be a challenging detail, as not only will the coaches need to be found, but also the drivers - probably at least twice as many drivers as coaches - if not more.

    The coaches won't deliver people to where they need to be - so as well as bikes on the coach the options can include City Car Club/Co Wheels vehicles and car hire, and perhaps a boost to the bike hire from Haymarket Station. Glasgow Bike Hire can also set up a station in around a day if the case can be made.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  10. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Chartered engineer & Amey bridge man, Mark Arndt tells us a little bit about the technical update on the bridge

    "

    https://audioboom.com/boos/3906436-forth-road-bridge-technical-update

    Posted 9 years ago #
  11. LaidBack
    Member

    FRB Contractors vs Cyclists. There can only be one winner!
    Apparently some of 'us' aren't getting the message.

    Forth Road Bridge @forthroadbridge
    We've had some cyclists trying to get onto the bridge today. Please be aware the bridge is closed to all. #SafetyFirst

    Mr M @Themcinallys
    @forthroadbridge they don't pay attention to red lights, why would BRIDGE CLOSED be any different
    12:17 PM - 6 Dec 2015
    Retweets 9 likes 9

    Posted 9 years ago #
  12. Rosie
    Member

    I've got a bit of sympathy for guys working on a huge essential structure wanting minimum distractions/disruptions.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  13. Blueth
    Member

    Well, Traffic Scotland's grand master plan says "you are encouraged to walk or cycle" but is silent on the possibility of getting a bike on either the train or the buses. The implication is surely that cyclists should use the train and the bus, or do they really expect cyclists to add 60 miles to their daily commute?

    I doubt it will be possible to get a bike on the train at Gyle, indeed I think you'll struggle just as a pedestrian to board a train beyond Haymarket.

    The Plan is either not properly thought through or is being badly communicated.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  14. minus six
    Member

    Cyclists reminded: Forth Road closure applies to you, too

    Thats a classic. Reminds me of the lollipop lady in South Queensferry who jumps out at me every time i'm about to pass, just so that she can say the same thing. Gratuitous, discriminatory moto-centric bollocks.

    I've got a bit of sympathy for guys working on a huge essential structure wanting minimum distractions/disruptions.

    You'll fit in well in this corporate pseudo-fascist nation state, then.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  15. Baldcyclist
    Member

    It's shut, get over it, we really are not deserving of special access.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  16. minus six
    Member

    I don't agree with you baldcyclist, and frankly, you've always been an Uncle Tom apologist.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

    Now now

    Rule 1

    Posted 9 years ago #
  18. chdot
    Admin

    "

    The Road Haulage Association was among the first organisation to say that its members would expect to be compensated over extra costs they will incur by having to make lengthy detours, in addition to the financial burden of having to pay substitute drivers to comply with legislation over working hours for lorry drivers.

    "

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/calls-for-compensation-over-forth-bridge-closure-1-3967761

    Posted 9 years ago #
  19. Rosie
    Member

    @ bax - yeah this corporate pseudo-fascist nation state pays me to do their propaganda.

    As a matter of interest is the corporate pseudo-fascist nation state the UK or Scotland?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  20. wingpig
    Member

    @baldcyclist To be fair, cyclists and pedestrians don't contribute anywhere near as much to bridge wear and tear as swiftly-moving massive motor vehicles.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  21. Baldcyclist
    Member

    I don't believe they contribute anything to the load either, but who knows what machinery, vehicles, cables, whatever other equipment will be lying about whilst they complete the work.

    Where should the onus of safety lie in that situation, would we have peds / cyclists sign a disclaimer on the way over?

    Posted 9 years ago #
  22. minus six
    Member

    As a matter of interest is the corporate pseudo-fascist nation state the UK or Scotland?

    Fair point, Rosie

    I referred to Scotland pejoratively as pseudo-fascist, when the more accurate term would be crypto-fascist

    My bad

    Posted 9 years ago #
  23. Rosie
    Member

    @bax Thank you for clearing that up.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  24. Charterhall
    Member

    Of all the mitigations that could go some way to alleviating this sorry situation, maintaining pedestrian and cyclist access across the bridge would surely be the easiest. But no, they just can't be bothered. A telling reflection of the how the Scottish government view cycling.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  25. Nelly
    Member

    "A telling reflection of the how the Scottish government view cycling"

    I think they decided on safety grounds that it is shut to all "civilians".

    Blue lights are allowed in emergency situations, but my presumption is that the bike lane will be a service lane for the contractors for duration of remedial works.

    Of course, I might be wrong......

    Posted 9 years ago #
  26. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I can understand why blue-light responses are being allowed across the bridge. If they aren't, there's a good chance people will die. There's a big difference, an inordinately big one indeed, between that and a few weeks inconvenience to commuters - not just cyclists, but walkists, carrists, trainists and bussists. Everyone is inconvenienced (apart from those potentially about to die).

    Other half was watching "The Bridge" on the tellybox. For those not familiar with it (like me, I had to look it up), it refers to the Øresund Bridge between Copenhagen and Malmo. Denmark and Sweden, two progressive, cycling-friendly Nordic democracies of which we are rightly envious. And no, you can't cycle across it, you have to take the train. Perhaps cycle access across major bridges isn't that much of an indicator of being a cycle-friendly nation as we might otherwise assume.

    I also had to look up crypto-fascism on Wikipedia. But quite what that's got to do with the Forth Road Bridge, I didn't find out.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    "I didn't find out"

    I thought Wikipedia knew everything(?)

    Posted 9 years ago #
  28. LivM
    Member

    We're planning Christmas. Family in north Fife, us in Edinburgh. Want to avoid 5h driving to and fro on Xmas day, does anyone know if there will be trains running? Or when they might tell us if they will be? Even an Inverkeithing/Waverley shuttle would be good.

    Posted 9 years ago #
  29. chdot
    Admin

  30. sallyhinch
    Member

    I think it's safe to say nobody will be cycling over this bridge for a while

    Posted 9 years ago #

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