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St James Redevelopment

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  1. crowriver
    Member

    I would suggest people do write to the developers. However I would also suggest sending copies of that response to your local councillors and any members of the Transport & Environment committee. Possibly with added comments about the need to drastically rethink the design principles of this junction.

    Personally I think it's shockingly poor. It prioritises motor vehicles and trams at the expense of other transport modes. At a minimum, the vehicle capacity of this junction should be no more than currently. Preferably it should be reduced. Pedestrians need to be the first priority here, with other modes in descending order of priority, as per the council's own design guidance.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  2. ELPSF
    Member

    First time post but I'm struggling to understand how this fits with the likely introduction of the Edinburgh Low Emission Zone(s) in around 3 years time. Plan / Build to encourage traffic now and then what use is it when you then have to strangle demand to acheive your air quality targets? Best to optimise now for the not too distant future and tell the developers to suck it up surely.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  3. crowriver
    Member

    Presumably the LEZ will be so small it won't include this junction. Anyway LEZ will only charge the more polluting vehicle drivers: those who drive new cars that meet the standards will get in for free.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  4. ELPSF
    Member

    SG consultation is looking at Euro VI for diesel cars and taxis which is 2013 and newer so will create a significant shift in demand. Regardless I'm not seeing joined up thinking which is no surprise I suppose.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  5. ih
    Member

    The Council Transport & Environment Committee members can be found here http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/directory_record/939656/transport_and_environment_committee

    These are the Councillors for the City Centre ward in which Picardy Place lies http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/councillors/specificWard/3/city_centre

    These are the Councillors for the Leith Walk ward. The ward boundary is at London Road but these Councillors will have a very close interest for their own constituents in the development http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/councillors/specificWard/10/leith_walk

    The Council leader is Adam McVey http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/councillors/85/adam_mcvey

    Posted 6 years ago #
  6. ih
    Member

    This is where you can find the email addresses for the MSP for Edinburgh Central Holyrood constituency (it's Ruth Davidson, Conservative Leader, so probably not very promising ground), and for the Regional MSPs (which includes Kezia Dugdale, Labour, who rides on PoP, and the two Green MPs, Alison Johnstone and Andy Wightman, both of whom are Spokes members. Andy Wightman is also an authority on Edinburgh Common Good land some of which forms the triangle in the middle of the proposed gyratory.
    http://www.parliament.scot/mspfinder/index.html?region=Lothian

    Posted 6 years ago #
  7. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    These are the Transport & Environment committee members;

    All of them have possible sympathies for a more human and business-friendly design. The Chair is one of my councillors and a long-term resident of Geneva.

    lesley.macinnes@edinburgh.gov.uk,
    karen.doran@edinburgh.gov.uk,
    scott.arthur@edinburgh.gov.uk,
    gavin.barrie@edinburgh.gov.uk,
    chas.booth@edinburgh.gov.uk,
    graeme.bruce@edinburgh.gov.uk,
    steve.burgess@edinburgh.gov.uk,
    nick.cook@edinburgh.gov.uk,
    scott.douglas@edinburgh.gov.uk,
    gillian.gloyer@edinburgh.gov.uk,
    david.key@edinburgh.gov.uk

    Posted 6 years ago #
  8. HankChief
    Member

    My impression from visiting and talking to the people there is that the brief was to make it "more pedestrian & cycling friendly whilst maintaining traffic flow".

    If that was the brief then they have succeeded compared to now.

    However, the brief is not doing our city any favours...

    I asked why there wasn't any bus prioritisation on the Picardy Place drawings. Apparently the design will allow all traffic to flow so they won't be held up... all hail the god of traffic flow.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  9. ih
    Member

    The representative from the design company whom I spoke to on Friday (nedd1e-h was there too giving him a real straight talking to!) said that the primary consideration in the design was to create a space for the tram stop. He also implied that the developers had specified that traffic flow was important to serve the 1600 place car park and provide customers for the shopping mall.

    This design will blight the east end and the rest of central Edinburgh until the next major redesign in 30/40 years. If they had designed a space for people (for example by only having two sides of the triangle and extending out either from the cathedral side or the Omni side and creating a peaceful space to attract tram and bus travellers) and narrowing the roads and genuinely prioritising cycling, they would actually encourage more customers to their mall. The current design is appalling; there is nothing to welcome in it.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  10. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I think there is something to be said to the developer (who lives north of Swindon), and that's that this design will blight their luxury hotel. No one pays top dollar to stay next to a filthy gyratory. Apart from the Place de la Concorde but that's got charms that this thing never will.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  11. HankChief
    Member

    @ih- completely agree.

    When I chatted there was some wafting of hands over the design, saying that there was flexibility in the design so that if traffic flows permitted then in the future the island could be connected up on one edge.

    It just feels as though whoever set the brief isn't ready to consider to world where fewer people drive. Let's hope that they see the response to Picardy Place and the opportunity they are giving up and it changes their mindset

    Posted 6 years ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

    “It just feels as though whoever set the brief isn't ready to consider to world where fewer people drive”

    Indeed, even less encourage one.

    Did some antediluvian section of CEC set the brief, or are the developers lying?

    “Let's hope that they see the response to Picardy Place”

    And the developers/consultants have an interest in that?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    We are privileged to live close to the centre of one of the most beautiful cities in the world. That is why it is so distressing to see it being redeveloped as a utopia for cars.

    Below is a letter that I have sent to each of my local councillors, asking them to oppose this development.

    https://russellandjennie.wordpress.com/2017/09/23/local-development/

    Posted 6 years ago #
  14. ih
    Member

    or are the developers lying?

    Have the developers said that CEC set the brief? If so, yes, they are. I believe CEC determined the tram stop location, and allowed the developers to strongly influence the rest of the brief.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

    “Have the developers said that CEC set the brief?”

    That is my clear understanding of what one of the consultants said to me yesterday - both that the design had to allow for (recent) traffic flow at each junction (plus future traffic growth) AND that it had all been signed off via committee reports at various times in recent years.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

  17. chdot
    Admin

  18. chdot
    Admin

  19. chdot
    Admin

  20. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I believe CEC determined the tram stop location, and allowed the developers to strongly influence the rest of the brief.

    The 'managing director' of the golden turd hotel told me that they didn't really care what was built as long as it was built quickly and not revisited any time soon. I'd guess he wants his 1,600 parking spaces to be accessible, but other than that....

    So if we can cause the council to rethink the developer may become our friend by pressing the council to compromise.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  21. neddie
    Member

    I have written a letter of objection to my councillors. Please feel free to crib any or all of it. (Although personalised submissions are more effective.)

    See here:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/fq0p4i4ig8hbg9j/Picardy%20Place%20submission.rtf?dl=0

    Posted 6 years ago #
  22. Stickman
    Member

    Conservative councillor Ian Whyte:

    Happy to look into but there is a lot intersecting at Pic Place. It may have to be good for all rather than perfect for some.

    I don't follow how the Conservatives can (rightly) be pressing for answers on the tram process yet appear happy to wave this one through.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  23. wingpig
    Member

    It's always going to be bad for people in cars, as they're stuck in cars. It can be tolerable for people on buses, as long as the road isn't too pitted. It need not be hell on wheels (with added tram rail) for cyclists, nor an experiment to see how many pedestrian crossings it takes to walk 50m.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  24. chdot
    Admin

  25. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Picardy Place Redevelopment

    Dear Councillor MacInnes,

    I am writing to you both as my councillor and as chair of the Transport and Environment Committee in relation to the above development, the plans for which I viewed yesterday at the developer’s event in Multrees Walk.

    The plans as presented are an insult to both Edinburgh and its citizens and a breach of the City of Edinburgh Council’s own Business Plan for 2017-2022.

    My main objection to the plan is that it prioritises motor traffic and is essentially a proposal to construct a very unwelcome 1960s style gyratory system in the heart of our city.

    The developer’s display claimed that the design gives priority to pedestrians, buses and cyclists. The method for determining which transport mode has priority is quite simple; determine which has the continuous, unbroken network and which has the greater surface area allocated to it. This design has;

    1. Three continuous lanes for motor traffic,
    2. narrow pavements disrupted by multiple pedestrian crossings,
    3. no bus lanes at all and,
    4. fragmented cycle lanes

    This design therefore prioritises the movement of private motor vehicles.

    The ‘Building for a Future Edinburgh’ section of your business plan requires that you;

    15. Protect Edinburgh World Heritage Status and make sure developments maintain the vibrancy of our city in terms of place-making, design and diversity of use.

    A design which prioritises motor cars cannot do this. Motor traffic kills the vibrancy of any area. Go to Picardy Place and Leith Street now and, despite their being a building site, you will find yourself lingering in the quiet, car-free atmosphere. This is an opportunity to create an actual place used by people, rather than a gigantic roundabout.

    16. Invest £100m in roads and pavements over the next 5 years. This will include road and pavement maintenance, installing more pedestrian crossings, increasing the number of dropped kerbs and dedicate safer foot and cycle paths as well as introducing more pedestrian zones.

    There isn’t a pedestrian zone to be seen in the design. Any European city with any ambition (I understand you know Geneva well) would see Picardy Place, with its cathedral, commercial centres and nearby gay quarter as a place to be pedestrianised. Motor traffic could be tolerated on the edges of such a space, but should never be encouraged or dominant. This should be a place for residents, not transient motorists.

    17. Guarantee 10% of the transport budget on improving cycling in the city.

    The plan as presented has cycle facilities, but they are fragmented and not integrated into a wider network. Money spent on fragments is money wasted. Spend our money on a network and do not allow gaps in it. That’s what will get Edinburgh cycling.

    18. Improve Edinburgh’s air quality and reduce carbon emissions. Explore the implementation of low emission zones.

    Surely I don’t need to explain how a three-lane gyratory for private cars is not compatible with your own stated aims in this regard?

    19. Keep the city moving by reducing congestion, improving public transport to rural west Edinburgh and managing roadworks to avoid unnecessary disruption to the public.

    Your own town planners will tell you that construction of any motor facility simply induces journeys by motor car. Removing such facilities causes those same journeys to evaporate. Picardy Place is a chance for you to put down a marker that the car is no longer king in our beautiful city. If you build a three-lane gyratory here you will simply cause congestion there and elsewhere. Reducing congestion means reducing the use of private motor vehicles.

    27. Tackle pavement parking and reduce street clutter to improve accessibility

    The plan as presented implies the creation of an island hidden behind three lanes of high speed motor traffic. The entire plan is, in my view, clutter. These three lanes will simply fill up with stationary buses and cars and motorists will park their vehicles in the cycle lanes.

    My plea to you is this; have some ambition for our city beyond playing catch-up with Glasgow and Birmingham’s programmes of self-harm from the sixties. Picardy Place could become many things, including a garden plaza or a site for locally owned green businesses. It could attract rather than repel people. Think about your favourite places in our city. Do you prefer the West Approach Road or Princes Street Gardens? The bypass or Braid Hill? Queen’s Drive or Queen Street? This could become a new favourite place if we simply have the will to hinder access to motor cars.

    When private motor traffic takes over our streets it drives people away and harms business. This is an opportunity to be brave and to make central Edinburgh a great place to live rather than yet another car-infested tourist trap that people flee to the suburbs to escape.

    I look forward to hearing from you in due course,

    IWRATS

    Posted 6 years ago #
  26. Klaxon
    Member

    When I draft mine tomorrow I will likely draw parallels to the social mecca that is the Morrison St triangle

    Posted 6 years ago #
  27. piosad
    Member

    Excellent letter IWRATS. Well worth emphasizing the point that the gyratory will make both the CCWEL and Leith Walk cycling projects about half as useful as they should be if cross-city journeys are expected to go through there.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  28. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Did somebody post this already?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  29. HankChief
    Member

    @IWRATS - Don't think so. But I did make your letter into a series of tweets.

    Hope you don't mind...

    Posted 6 years ago #
  30. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @HankChief

    Rock and roll! IWRATS has a thread!

    Posted 6 years ago #

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