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St James Redevelopment

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  1. Colonies_Chris
    Member

    Here's my email to the Transport Committee members.

    Dear Councillor,

    I'm writing to you in your role as a member of the Transport Committee.

    On Friday I went to view the plans for Picardy Place. and I was horrified. I had been under the impression that the city (and, finally, also the Scottish government) were seriously committed to active travel and reduction in car use. And then along come these plans, which are completely car-dominated. The addition of some disjointed cycle ways, and some pedestrian/cycle shared space (always a recipe for conflict) does not disguise the fact that this is in effect an urban motorway - three lanes of traffic in every direction, the whole thing designed around the car with some sops to pedestrians and cyclists around the edges.

    At a time when many cities across Europe (and even in the US) are trying to reduce car dependency, this is going in completely the wrong direction. Evidence shows over and over again that traffic congestion cannot be relieved by more roads. More roads just produce more traffic, and everyone loses - pedestrian breathe polluted air while crossing 6 lanes of traffic, cyclists are forced into conflict with pedestrians or into danger from cars, and even car drivers themselves lose as the available road space soon fills up and congestion returns. Do you really want to turn this part of our historic city into a re-creation of 1960s Birmingham?

    Not only this, but the lack of public consultation is outrageous. There have been extensive public consultations recently on relatively minor changes, but this massive development is to be imposed on us without any consultation whatever, and with the plans only made available for viewing at a very late stage.

    I urge you to rethink the whole thing. This will be the future of the east end of the city for at least a generation - it’s not the future I want, it’s not even the future the council says it wants (remember the hierarchy - pedestrians > cyclists > public transport > cars? It seems that was just greenwash.)

    Posted 7 years ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

  3. chdot
    Admin

  4. chdot
    Admin

  5. Roibeard
    Member

    I visited the "consultation" on Saturday - it seemed more like a marketing event compared to the other consultations I've attended recently.

    The folk present said that there would not be tram stop in the middle of the gyratory, however the original council documents do suggest that there is a stop to be created there.

    Anyone know the current state of play? It makes things worse if the intention is to have someone cross three (at least) lanes of traffic to get to/from the tram?

    I'm afraid I don't trust the folk present at the consultation to have told the truth...

    Robert

    Posted 7 years ago #
  6. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I'm afraid I don't trust the folk present at the consultation to have told the truth...

    I detected no outright lies, but it was a sales event, not a consultation. Gloss dripped from every word.

    If you want to consult with the residents of Leith Walk you don't do it in a wine bar on Mutrees Walk. I don't feel welcome there and I'm fair gallus.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  7. wingpig
    Member

    "The folk present said that there would not be tram stop in the middle of the gyratory, however the original council documents do suggest that there is a stop to be created there.

    I'm afraid I don't trust the folk present at the consultation to have told the truth..."

    According to my eavesdropping, the stop is only on York Place at the moment as the track stops there... the representative said to his interlocutor that the stop would be on the gyratory (using whatever woolly term they were favouring to disguise it) and removed from York Place, the better to serve the Omni and Hertz and Deep Sea or wherever rather than just York Place.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  8. neddie
    Member

    When I challenged the designers at the consultation about the motor-orientated gyratory, they claimed that it had been designed to be “flexible and capable of being modified or improved at a later date”.

    This is patently nonsense, as road layouts are extremely difficult, expensive and time-consuming to change. History shows that the existing roundabout there has only been remodelled once every 20-25 years.

    It’s almost like they were admitting the overall design was bad.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  9. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    they claimed that it had been designed to be “flexible and capable of being modified or improved at a later date”

    The MD of the tapeworm hotel said the one thing he wants is stability. Wants Picardy Place delivered and left alone.

    That's the reason he is delivering this. I would expect his money to mount a legal challenge against council refinements.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  10. ih
    Member

    Thought I'd bump two bits of information upthread that may help with communication to Councillors and developers.

    The first is a 2009 design for Picardy Place which is essentially identical to the one we have now. It's the three lane gyratory. The only thing they've done is take space from the pavements for a narrow 2-way Greenside Place cycle way, and two bits of shared space in the triangle connected by toucans. It doesn't prioritise pedestrians and cyclists; it is still a 3-lane 'motorway'.
    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15889&page=10#post-261485

    The second are the Sustrans suggestions which do attempt to calm and reduce traffic, and promote sustainable travel.
    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=15889&page=8#post-261195

    Posted 7 years ago #
  11. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Our advantage as private citizens is surely that we can be a little more ambitious, and indeed confrontational, than Sustrans which if I understand correctly various government agencies fund so that it can then lobby them to do things they've already decided to do.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  12. chdot
    Admin

    "Our advantage as private citizens is surely that we can be a little more ambitious, and indeed confrontational"

    (My) problem is that I have no idea who needs confronting most/first.

    Clearly not 'too late to change' but not at all clear what CEC processes have to be gone through.

    Also far from clear how much SNP councillors are willing to listen given how much ScotGov has invested (literally).

    Posted 7 years ago #
  13. dougal
    Member

    Anyone know owners/managers/staff at the surrounding businesses? I can't think that the clubs and bars that comprise the pink triangle will welcome it turning into the tarmac triangle. CC's and The Street do their best to affect a continental street cafe vibe during the day which will surely evaporate in so much smog.

    I'm sure there is a complicated metric relating different types of businesses to vehicle access. Cinemas and theatres more likely to favour it because their business doesn't revolve around alcohol. Bars and nightclubs must surely prefer the bus and tram stops and the wide pavements.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  14. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    far from clear how much SNP councillors are willing to listen

    Good point. Feelers need put out.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  15. HankChief
    Member

    https://www.sustrans.org.uk/news/picardy-place-our-position

    Interesting that this was tweeted by Nicola's Special Advisor...

    Posted 7 years ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

    From link -

    "

    The concept of Hierarchy of Street Users is not at the centre of project thinking and does not follow Scottish Government policy for Designing Streets.

    The multi-lane gyratory traffic system appears unsuitable for an area at the gateway to Edinburgh’s World Heritage area.

    Designs developed with traffic modelling as primary driver rather than places for people will result in a poor public realm experience.

    "

    ScotGov clearly needs to act.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  17. Stickman
    Member

  18. chdot
    Admin

    EXTREMELY disappointing response from Cllr Macinnes -


    “The general consensus of the feedback so far is the proposals offer a clear improvement on the current layout.

    “But we acknowledge some groups feel we haven’t gone far enough and will look at ways to incorporate their suggestions as far as possible.”

    Posted 7 years ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

  20. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    IWRATS,

    Many thanks for this – the detailed nature of your comments is very helpful.

    Professor Scott Arthur
    Councillor for the Colinton/Fairmilehead Ward

    Posted 7 years ago #
  21. Stickman
    Member

    I'm probably missing something here.

    It seems that TROs are needed for even the most minor change, for example switching a pelican to a toucan crossing. How is this getting through without going through the TRO?

    Are they using the original tram legislation to do whatever they want?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  22. chdot
    Admin

    “Are they using the original tram legislation to do whatever they want?”

    They think so.

    Sadly they might be legally correct.

    However I assume approval is for CEC to do stuff not the developers/partnership.

    Clearly Cllr Macinnes needs to change her mind, but if not there may need to be some legal challenges.

    FAST...

    Posted 7 years ago #
  23. PS
    Member

    “Are they using the original tram legislation to do whatever they want?”

    They think so.

    CEC should realise that it isn't going to help the tram's cause, though. A proper bus/bus/tram interchange (as envisaged in the Sustrans proposals) would enhance and facilitate public transport use, boosting patronage; whereas the gyratory design would make changing from bus to bus or bus to tram inconvenient and unpleasant as you have to cross three lanes of traffic, suck up exhaust fumes and wait for your next ride crammed in on relatively narrow pavements.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  24. piosad
    Member

    I mean, technically she's right, it's going from death trap to extremely unpleasant and a prime candidate for being ripped up immediately on completion, so yes, an improvement. But hey, we'll have tons of consultation with everyone under the sun when the TROs for CCWEL come out, am I right?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  25. chdot
    Admin

    @PS

    + 1

    Posted 7 years ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

  27. Stickman
    Member

    Don't expect the Conservatives to challenge this too much:

    "Agree should improve for walking & cycling but it is a critical junction for traffic in east of city. It must still move. #compromiseneeded"

    https://mobile.twitter.com/cllrwhyte/status/912623673676324864

    Posted 7 years ago #
  28. wingpig
    Member

    It's also critical for foot-traffic, from the most densely-populated chunk of the city into town. Not all 'compromises' are fair? Why all the space for motor-traffic to be held in whilst pedestrians have to accumulate in narrower, hemmed-in spaces for much longer for far shorter cycles of passage?

    Are John Lewis satisfied that all their customers will magically appear from the underground car park, or might they be interested in improvements to the experience of their pedestrian customers?

    I was trying to draft an email yesterday evening but it usually takes a few goes to keep it mostly respectful.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  29. crowriver
    Member

    I'm planning to write in about this. Still considering my response. Hopefully tomorrow.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin


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