https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/directory_record/416132/st_james_quarter
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
St James Redevelopment
(594 posts)-
Posted 6 years ago #
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How do you get from the East-West thingy to the Leith Walk thingy, considering they scrapped the section on Princes Street?
Those ASLs don't scream 8-80 to me.
EDIT: oh, I see the shared space now. As if that crossing isn't crowded enough!
Posted 6 years ago # -
Some important digging going on here -
Posted 6 years ago # -
From
'City of Edinburgh Council
Picardy Place Development Principles, Draft Final July 2009'(my emphasis)
---
City Design Initiative
2.1 In December 2005, the City’s Design Champion raised concerns that proposals emerging for Picardy Place at that time failed to grasp the opportunity presented by the tram project to return the traffic dominated area at one of Edinburgh’s important city centre ‘gateways’ to positive urban use. A series of workshops followed that considered how the area could be redefined to act as an important interchange, offer a valuable development opportunity and critically turn it into a ‘place for people’; as opposed to the space which was created by traffic management demands. These workshops, and others to develop the tram project and proposals for the St James Quarter, have acted as a precursor to the development principles set out in this document.
----
I presume that was a reference to Jan Gehl. Seems the powers that be at the council have decided to ignore just about every single recommendation he ever made.
What a terrible shame.
I have a feeling I might quote some of their own Development Principles document back at them...
Posted 6 years ago # -
From the St James Quarter Development Brief, approved by the Planning Committee 19 April 2007.
Development Principles:
B To enhance movement and access to and within the St James Quarter
Proposals for the St James Quarter should:
- Recognise its pivotal city centre location by maximising access by foot, bicycle and public transport;
- Provide linkages to and from tram stops, bus stops and other public transport nodes including Waverley Station and the Bus Station;
- Ensure that the Quarter is fully accessible for all user groups;
- Provide public routes through the Quarter which are open 24 hours a day;
- Consider the removal of the Leith Street Bridge and examine alternative means of pedestrian access across Leith Street and into the St James Quarter, if justified as part of an overall Transport study;
- Provide car parking facilities of the highest quality that are safe, secure and easy to use.
C To place sustainability at the core of future redevelopment proposals
Sustainability should be considered as an integral part of the development process including the design, procurement, construction and management of new development and the future operation of the resulting buildings.
- Maximise its city centre location by facilitating and encouraging sustainable modes of transport to St James Quarter including visitors and also employees;
- Meet the targets and aspirations of the Edinburgh Standard for Sustainable Building; but with the expectation that the development exceeds these requirements in the following areas:
- Qualityinlayout,buildingandlandscapingdesign
- Inclusive,healthyandsafeenvironments
- Reduction in climate change impacts and increase in
renewal energy generation
- Useofsustainableresourceandmaterials
- Reductioninpollutionandimprovementinre-cycling
- Sustainableconstructionandoperation- Build for a long life by providing buildings which are adaptable and flexible in design and construction;
- Ensure every effort is made to ensure that waste generated as a result of the development is re-used or re-cycled;
- Consider the potential impact on the city centre’s Air Quality Management Area and seek to make a positive impact on air pollution in the city centre area;
- Be supported by a Sustainability Statement including a working method statement which outlines the developer’s commitment to sustainability throughout the whole development and construction process and how sustainability objectives are to be realised.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Anyone seen the 'Sustainability Statement'? Perhaps in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard'?
Posted 6 years ago # -
“
if justified as part of an overall Transport study
“
Bit odd.
What does TS say (is there one?)
Posted 6 years ago # -
“
19.10 Keynote address by Cllr Lesley Macinnes, Convenor, Transport and Environment Committee, CEC
“
Posted 6 years ago # -
When Edinburgh’s shoppers voted with their feet (perhaps).
“
However, when most of the interesting features were ripped out at the end of the nineties, many people, myself included, were a tad distraught.
Even more so when the Waverley title was inexplicably binned in favour of the more American-friendly Princes Mall. The independent shops moved out too, with generic high street brands taking their place. And with that, everything that had made Waverley Market unique and welcoming had vanished. Where at one time there was an attractive water feature there is now a bland food court with all the appeal of a dole queue in December. After Edinburgh folk spent a decade and a half steadfastly refusing to refer to the premises by its new name, the Waverley name was reinstated in March last year. Lord Provost Donald Wilson was present for the grand opening of Waverley Mall. It’ll always be Waverley Market, though.
“
Posted 6 years ago # -
You have a problem when the best thing about your centre is a main post office
Posted 6 years ago # -
Dear IWRATS
Thank you very much indeed for your detailed analysis of the planned changes to Picardy Place.
Firstly, may I apologise for not sending you a fuller response to the specific points you raise? I am currently working with officers to try to find appropriate means to address many of the issues raised by yourself and other correspondents, as well as during last weekend’s consultation. I am trying hard to find solutions within the legal, financial and physical constraints of this project.
Our current expectation is to bring a report to the Transport & Environment Committee (of which I am the Convener) on Oct 5 which should reflect that progress. I appreciate that this is not likely to address everyone’s specific concerns. Please be assured, however, that I have been looking very carefully at social media and email commentary on this project and have been discussing, in detail, with officers the various implications for both this project and how we proceed around future road developments within the Council.
Thank you very much for taking the time to write to me with your concerns. I sincerely hope that we can make progress which will meet some of the objections raised.
Kind regards
Cllr Lesley Macinnes
Posted 6 years ago # -
That's encouraging.
Can I suggest you ask her more about -
"
I am trying hard to find solutions within the legal, financial and physical constraints of this project.
"
Especially the first one.
Posted 6 years ago # -
"...looking carefully at social media..."
I do hope this means she's seen the great detective work that chdot linked to on Twitter last night.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Can I suggest you ask her more about
You certainly may. We bicyclists exist in the physical world but there exists also a noumenal world in which such conversations might take place. I have petitioned a wise owl in that dimension.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Cllr Scott Arthur (on the Transport Committee):
https://mobile.twitter.com/profscottthinks/status/912950618695888896
Picardy Place:
+ We must listen to experts.
+ Lack of fiance can't be used as an excuse for compromising safety.Links to this article about Sustrans:
Posted 6 years ago # -
I received a very similar letter from Lesley Macinnes as IWRATS's
Posted 6 years ago # -
The reference to legal, financial and physical constraints is, as @chdot points out, very interesting.
Legal constraints can always be challenged politically - all laws emerge from some body politic.
Cycle infrastructure is much cheaper than automobile infrastructure and pays for itself four times over in business and health terms, so that's only a constraint if the accounting framework is wrong.
I can't imagine how anyone could find themselves physically constrained to build a vast roundabout and an office block. I hope I never find myself cornered by whatever beast is forcing them to do that.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Maybe Sustrans CL+ money could be withheld, with all the bad publicity entailed, as the council clearly has no inclination to link the funded schemes into wider active travel friendly environments.
Thoroughly ridiculous that the plans are pulled from original plans from the badly planned, badly run tram project...
Posted 6 years ago # -
Would help if she didn't spout the same old discredited nonsense (from EN link) -
"
Transport convener Lesley Macinnes defended the current plans and claimed Sustrans’ ideas would have led to delays and congestion.
"
Presume/hope this was sent out before emails mentioned above.
Posted 6 years ago # -
From EEN article: "It was rejected on the basis that it ... would not cater well for an integrated public transport interchange."
Because a tram stop on an island, surrounded by 3 lanes on all sides with presumably pelican crossings that run to a schedule giving 8s to cross every few minutes, with bus stops randomly scattered in the vicinity on the other sides of said roads, will make a great integrated public transport interchange!
Posted 6 years ago # -
"I am trying hard to find solutions within the legal, financial and physical constraints of this project."
Translation: There's a snowball in Hell's chance that your concerns will ever be addressed. However I'll make a big fuss of shifting the smoke and mirrors around a bit, while fundamentally the council's decision will remain unchanged. If opposition parties push hard, I might consider some tiny bits of tinkering at the edges, but inevitably whatever minuscule compromises emerge will be rendered useless by poor implementation on the part of contractors when this is built.
Posted 6 years ago # -
A linked article embedded in the one about Sustrans reveals that the developers and council are trying to spin this motorway as a "win" for active travel.
Fake news indeed.
Posted 6 years ago # -
"the developers and council are trying to spin this motorway as a "win" for active travel"
Yeah, that's last week's 'big news'.
The 'truth' is mostly in the 3rd paragraph.
"
They claim the revised road layout would encourage lower speeds and greater road safety, whilst helping to improve the flow of traffic to the area.
The design also create routes that are suitable for less confident cyclists.
The proposals, together with the current Leith Street works, are set to prepare the area for future development and facilitate the £1 billion Edinburgh St James scheme.
"
Posted 6 years ago # -
Sustrans full statement here:
Posted 6 years ago # -
The MD of the Golden Tapeworm was very keen to emphasize the 'one billion bound inward investment' but I didn't have the life force to ask for a cash flow analysis.
Given that retail and hospitality jobs are notoriously poorly rewarded I suspect that all this will be a drain on Edinburgh's finances.
Anybody who claims a route to be 'suitable for less confident cyclists' should be forced to ride it at 17h00 on a Friday in February with their children in tow.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Edinburgh St james is the flagship project for the Scottish Future Trust's "Growth Accelerator" model of using public infrastructure spend to "unlock" (ie. subsidise) private investment.
https://www.scottishfuturestrust.org.uk/storage/uploads/Growth_Accelerator_-_Guidance.pdf
---
5.0 Case Study: Edinburgh St James Quarter
The Project
St James Quarter (SJQ) was the first large-scale infrastructure development to receive GA support, with City of Edinburgh Council (CEC) instrumental in developing the approach. Built in the 1960s at the top of Leith Walk in Edinburgh, the St James Centre incorporated a shopping centre, an office block and a hotel; and for a number of years was regarded as being past it best by many. To this end, CEC had a vision to update and regenerate the St. James quarter, working with the private sector to delivery change. To achieve this, SFT, together with SG and CEC, developed the GA to unlock the potential economic growth and investment.
The Growth Accelerator support focuses on the delivery of c.£60m of public sector enabling spend, which in turn will create the right conditions to unlock over £1Bn of private sector investment, alongside meeting the strategic priorities of the Council to deliver city-centre improvements and inclusive economic growth. During 2016/17, work started on demolishing the site to create a new destination, incorporating 750,000 sq. ft. of retail space, a five-star hotel and up to 250 private residential apartments, due for completion by 2021.
The GA investment supports public sector enabling investments:
- public-realm improvements;
- major highway improvements and traffic management proposals; and
- a new energy centre, as well as replacing and upgrading essential utility services.---
So there you have it. The junction redesign, and presumably the Leith Street works too, is all publicly funded. Our money is making this mess. It might even be CEC funds!
Oh and the private sector investment is now reckoned at £850 million, mostly just building the shopping mall, hotel and associated car parking.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@IWRATS Short of kidnapping and tying their feet to the pedals I'm not sure we can arrange mandatory dogfooding of cycle infrastructure.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@dougal
I've gone too far this time, haven't I?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Oddly enough, at the Leith Walk consultations I asked one of the designers if he would cycle the infrastructure he was proposing - his answer was a resounding "no"...
The irony, arrogance, and folly of this was pointed out!
Robert
Posted 6 years ago # -
The mood boards from the recent "consultation" are online.
http://www.edinburghstjames.com/downloads/ESJ_T4E_PicardyPlace_Consultation_web.pdf
Also more details on the design:
http://www.edinburghstjames.com/downloads/PicardyPlaceMapAugust2017.pdf
Posted 6 years ago #
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