what is behind the gyratory. Is it just a mistake or does someone actually want this horror to be built
I'm pretty sure Nick Cook (Conservative councillor for Morningside) wants it built, as does the manager of the St James centre.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
St James Redevelopment
(594 posts)-
Posted 6 years ago #
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Posted 6 years ago #
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“as does the manager of the St James centre”
I expect s/he wants an easy way to get to/in/out car park, but is this even the best design for that?!
Posted 6 years ago # -
he wants an easy way to get to/in/out car park
He also said that if this were "anywhere else" the car park would've been designed as 6000 spaces, not 1600.
"anywhere else" presumably not including places like Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Seville, Oslo, Helsinki, nor pretty much any other civilised city in continental Europe.
Posted 6 years ago # -
senior officials were persuaded to take early retirement because they kept doing designs for roads that LRC had voted to remove
The "chief planner guy" (?) I spoke to from the council at the 'consultation' was very close to retirement age. I imagine he was a graduate planner, fresh out of Uni, in the heady days of motoring in the 1960s. I don't think his design ideas have moved on...
He probably thinks that adding a few cycle lanes on the existing pavement and some shared-space is revolutionary.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I'm pretty sure Nick Cook (Conservative councillor for Morningside) wants it built
Oh, I know Nick Cook. Nice enough guy but not the most, em...knowledgeable, or ehhh....given to reflection. Perhaps the gyratory could be installed at Morningside Cross instead if his voters are keen on it?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Here's a link to the August 2009 report to CEC on Picardy Place following public consultation. http://bit.ly/2k6wWdy
Makes for *fascinating* reading.
How did they arrive at this design from those principles? A 1960s rear view mirror?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Something got well knobbled after that report Crowriver. Good digging.
Posted 6 years ago # -
The report Crowriver has linked to is very interesting reading. Specifically, nearly every single individual response received was from someone addressing the total lack of cycling provision.
So you can engage and lobby at every stage of the democratic planning process and you just get ignored anyway...
Posted 6 years ago # -
It does seem that despite numerous promises to "Note" objections and comments from the various bodies and persons consulted in 2009, they just went on to ignore the lot!
Is this a conspiracy or just a cock-up?
We should point out to CEC and the developers that they have largely ignored the views expressed in the public consultation in 2009. They were primarily concerns about pedestrians, quality public space, and cycling facilities. Only the last of these has been addressed, albeit in a half hearted, incomplete and cack-handed manner.
Posted 6 years ago # -
RSO/17/13 published today confirming the intention to terminate the Leith St cycleway at Calton Rd
Drawings dated June
Posted 6 years ago # -
I've been having a trawl through the transport assessment of the St James redevelopment application (handily in 6 separate parts) - you can find it on the Council planning website using reference 08/03361/OUT
A few key points. Modal split of people using the St James centre:
Walk: 12%
Bus: 65%
Train: 8%
Car: 11%
Other: 4%This dates from April 2007, so public and active travel shares should have increased, particularly due to the introduction of the tram. The developer aims to keep or improve on active/public transport modal shares.
As mentioned in the other thread, trip generation predicted using TRICS and bespoke modelling, general traffic modelling using a VISSIM model developed for TIE and some work using LINSIG.
The car park is big enough to cater for absolute peak hour demand, i.e. those driving should never have to wait for a space, even on a Saturday afternoon. Incredible really, given the very low occupancy of the Greenside car park next door.
Part 3 of the assessment deals with the Picardy Place gyratory. The transport assessment is clear that the creation of a gyratory is the result of the tram project and not part of the St James redevelopment.
Interestingly paragraph 6.28 states "Because the junction operates close to capacity, traffic on other approaches will tend to search for alternative routes to minimise delay". The report (para 6.23) predicts a peak hour increase in traffic of 100 vehicles following completion of the development, 50 of which will divert to alternative routes.
In essence, no big increase in traffic that needs to be accommodated and that drivers will choose alternate routes to avoid delay.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@Klaxon, well we knew already that's what they had planned. Note that on page 4, the drawings show the gyratory and "island hotel" area.
Is it possible to object to an RSO at this stage?
@Morningsider, well spotted. Thanks for the analysis. The more evidence we have that helps the case for abandoning this insane gyratory, the better. I'm thinking if one were to adjust those percentages according to the average modal shift in Edinburgh over the last decade, we might have some interesting results.
"The transport assessment is clear that the creation of a gyratory is the result of the tram project and not part of the St James redevelopment."
Which fits in with the SFT narrative about public sector funded enabling works. Which *could* mean that kicking up enough of a stink might get the plans changed? We can but hope.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago # -
Brilliant. Is there any way we can get quite a few prepared as stickers like the old Atomkraft ones? I would definitely chip in on a crowd funding for this.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I'm away for a few days as of tomorrow morning, but I imagine vistaprint would be a cheap and economical way to get some done.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I could see a few of these as stickers on the signal posts at pedestrian crossings adjacent to the current Abbeyhill gyratory.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I don't understand the messaging, why in German?
If printed please make sure they're easy-peel. There are some I have tried to remove recently that are anything but.
Posted 6 years ago # -
“why in German?”
Posted 6 years ago # -
T thought I saw spokes on facebok suggesting that there has been a U turn (sic) but cannot find it now?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Nicht u-turn. Just a promise of further consultation.
Given that the council largely ignored the last consultation (except for adding one segregated cycleway and some shared use footway nonsense) then it is difficult to be overly optimistic about the next month or so of consultation and whether it will be listened to.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Could get stickers (60mm circles on a waterproof gloss) for 14.3p each, minimum order £40 so 320 stickers.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I can see strategically placed stickers raising public consciousness considerably. I would pledge a tenner for a first print run.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Some smaller matt stickers were ordered last night. Appearing at a pedestrian crossing near you soon.
The 60mm ones would be good for placing on the rear of traffic signs, official diversion notices, etc.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Related -
“
“He said they had their timetable and they wanted to stick to it,” said Mr Balfour.
“
Posted 6 years ago # -
Slightly related -
“
In a hard-hitting report published today, they are now demanding an major overhaul of the construction and building contracts in Scotland to ensure lessons are learned from the scandal last year.
“
Posted 6 years ago # -
I still don't understand why German.
My parents had one of those Smiling Sun stickers on their car. It said "Nuclear Power No Thanks".Posted 6 years ago # -
Might be worth highlighting to Councillors a few examples where urban roundabouts/gyratories have been removed and replaced with pedestrian/cyclist/bus friendly alternatives:
Archway (London): Similar to the Sustrans proposals for St. james. http://content.tfl.gov.uk/archway-project-design-switch.pdf. Good photos here: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/126-million-archway-revamp-finally-complete-after-18-months-a3582651.html
Aldgate (London): https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/services/transport-and-streets/transport-planning/transport-projects/aldgate-area/Pages/default.aspx
Stockwell (London): https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/betterjunctions/stockwell-cross/Posted 6 years ago # -
Why German?
Why not... I recon it adds a little bit of the European spurit to it.
Instantly recognisable as "No Thanks", I did consider the Gaelic but Cha Ghabh Idir is a little bit more headscratching.
Posted 6 years ago #
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