"Why not?" is good enough for me...
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
St James Redevelopment
(596 posts)-
Posted 7 years ago #
-
As far as I recall, the movement started in Germany and the stickers here were often in German.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@Blueth As chdot linked to, it started in Denmark, but it came to maturity and world-wide recognition in Germany. I think in the UK, you saw more "Nein danke" stickers than "No thanks" ones in the early days.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Here's the Green Addendum passed (with a few changes) at the TEC meeting this morning.
According to Cllr Booth, changes/amendments were as follows:
"Following consultation & if required..." before paragraph d); and deletion of all after the first mention of "junction" in paragraph c).
Posted 7 years ago # -
I was struck yesterday by Mr Lawrence's statement that (according to the Spurtle) "The challenge had been to find transport solutions." Also that apparently "at no time during his presence within the Council (since 2015) had maximising development space at the centre of Picardy Place been discussed."
So I did a bit of research on the Council web site.
Astonishingly, for a supposedly transport led approach, I could find no trace of any discussion of Picardy Place in 2015 or 2016, in the period leading up to the signing of this apparently inviolable GAM contract with the developers.
However I did find some mentions in meetings of the full Council. These all seemed to be primarily concerned with a Compulsory Purchase Order for a small area of land owned by St Mary's Cathedral, currently open air parking, which was needed by the new shopping centre. I could find no reference to transport, only economic considerations, legal and land matters, Scottish government funds, and risks to the Council were discussed (though I admit i may have missed some points, please feel free to correct me if so).
Finally I managed to track down the Council action which approved the GAM deal in principle, the CPO process, and the signing of contracts. It was decided in a meeting on 1 May 2014 (the irony of the date is not lost on me). There is no mention of St James nor Picardy Place on the agenda, rather the decision was tabled under the heading "The Edinburgh 12 - Progress Report". There's more than a hint of obfuscation in that title, I'd suggest: almost "Beware of the Leopard" territory.
All this stuff is on the Council web site, just search for meeting 1 May 2014. So I'll just summarise what I've found out from the report and the minutes of that meeting.
Beasically, everything was ready to go in 2009: outline planning permission sorted; gyratory and tram stop design by TIE; public consultation carried out but many concerns dismissed; maybe there was some tweaking to keep the all-powerful cycle lobby quiet. Done and dusted, shovel-ready. Then the economic collapse happened, and the developers stalled plans for a few years, various permissions actually lapsed in 2012.
Suddenly in 2014, a draft business case for St James is circulated, presumably to Economic Development committee. Then this report is made to full Council (I have yet to discover if T&E committee ever discussed the transport side of things in 2014). There is an allusion to "designs" and "infrastructure", "public realm" even in the report, relevant paragraphs are presented below.
One point worth noting is that a motion calling on Council to approve the report and give delegated authority to officials to carry out the CPO (and presumably the infrastructure plans) was made by our old friend Cllr Frank Ross, who some of you may remember taking an interest in the proposals for Roseburn. Also worth noting that there were two amendment tabled, both critical of the motion: one asked Council to reject the borrowing of £61.4 million "for which a case had not been made because insufficient supporting detail had been supplied" (Cllrs Rust and Mowat); the other protested that "delays in the negotiations with the Scottish Government and the developer had led to proposals being placed before the Council with only two days notice" and asking for the report to be delayed by one cycle to allow fuller consideration (Cllrs Corbett and Bagshaw). Cllr Ross' motion was approved, the amendments were not as they did not attract sufficient support.
So that's where this mess started, folks. A "dodgy dossier" steamrollered through Council on International Workers' Day with only two days' notice to elected representatives.
You'll love this next bit, Here's an extract from "The Edinburgh 12 - Progress Report". outlining the benefits that this £60+ million worth of infrastructure spend will bring to us all. It sounds so good, you can almost believe it. Until you realise that what they claim will bring those benefits is a 1970s style gyratory design put together by TIE in 2007 and then tweaked a bit with a cycle track and some shared use path nonsense. Er...that's it. Read it and weep, suckers...
---
Infrastructure Investment Plan
- 3.14 The Council has identified a programme of infrastructure which would provide the necessary impetus to take the redevelopment forward. These include improvements to the physical environment at James Craig Walk, designed to increase the accessibility, permeability and the user experience of the areas; new public realm at Picardy Place, together with the provision of a multi-modal transport interchange at the junction of Leith Walk, Leith Street & York Place. A new energy centre designed to provide power, heat and cooling to the development and, potentially, the wider area will also be constructed. The value of the new infrastructure is projected at £61.4m.
- 3.15 Redevelopment of the Quarter provides an opportunity to complement the transport improvements that will be delivered through the Leith Programme. With additional funding from Sustrans Scotland, the programme will deliver major improvements for pedestrians and cyclists for the entire length of Leith Walk. The design has been informed by an analysis of the streets functions and its importance locally, as well as across the city as a major connector.
- 3.16 Picardy Place is a key travel route connector so there is a real opportunity for the Council to combine Leith Programme design features for active travel, thus joining up schemes in Leith Walk, the City Centre and Picardy Place.
---
Posted 7 years ago # -
Addendum to the above post.
There's more detail on the junction design, etc. in the update report "St James Quarter – Update on Progress", presented to full Council on 10 March 2016. Just search the Council web site to find it.
Also the "benefits" have been tweaked slightly in this report, and particularly the management and delivery arrangements have been detailed. Relevant paragraphs below.
I am not aware of any consultation, whether with the public, or with "stakeholders" on the "public realm detail" mentioned below. If anyone is aware of any consultation, however limited, please post information here.
---
Infrastructure Investment Plan
- 3.12 The Council has identified a programme of infrastructure works which would provide the necessary impetus to take the redevelopment forward. These include improvements to the physical environment at James Craig Walk, designed to increase the accessibility, permeability and the user experience of the areas; new public realm at Picardy Place, together with the provision of a transport interchange at the junction of Leith Walk, Leith Street & York Place. A new energy centre designed to provide power, heat and cooling to the development and, potentially, the wider area will also be constructed. The value of the new infrastructure was projected at up to £61.4 million; it is presently targeted at £52.40 million and will be managed and overseen by the GAM Oversight Group, comprising the Council, the Scottish Government and the Scottish Futures Trust. The public realm detail of the works is illustrated in Appendix D.
- 3.13 Redevelopment of the St James Quarter provides an opportunity to complement the transport improvements that will be delivered through the Leith Walk Improvement Programme. With additional funding from Sustrans Scotland, the programme will deliver major improvements for pedestrians and cyclists for the entire length of Leith Walk. The design has been informed by an analysis of the streets functions and its importance locally, as well as across the city as a major connector. In bringing together those programmes, the developments’ interfaces can be seen as agreed and illustrated in Appendix E.
---
Posted 7 years ago # -
This gets better and better. So the council & SG are subsidising to the tune of £50m/60m the developers'/development's heating system, footpaths and 3-lane expressways to shovel cars into the developer's revenue-generating oversized car park(s)? And the original gyratory design came from the largely discredited TIE who would happily have laid their tram lines over end-to-end dead cyclists if it resulted in one day's less delay or £1 less overspend to their poxy project? Words fail me.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@crowriver - the Picardy Place Development Principles included stakeholder responses, however I don't know how these were garnered.
Robert
Posted 7 years ago # -
A few points it might be worth pushing Councillors/MSPs on:
1. The Scottish Government won't provide any more cash - would they support a redesign of the scheme if it didn't cost any more? No need to over specify any redesign - using tarmac rather than granite paviours would save literally millions. A tarmac public space is far preferable to a three lane road and granite pavements.
2. The developers are concerned about delays (although they did delay starting the scheme themselves by several years). What, if any, delay would a redesign cause?
3. Is the reticence of the Council to change the scheme influenced by its decision to dispose of the "triangle" as a development site.Posted 7 years ago # -
“So the council & SG are subsidising to the tune of £50m/60m the developers”
Yep, that’s the way it works (in Edinburgh) and has done for decades.
Direct subsidies, inducements, peppercorn rents (sometimes with absurdly long leases) all in the name of ‘economic benefits’.
That’s business rates and tourist spend in internationally owned hotels etc.
The financial ‘benefit’ is estimated by people who have an interest in making it look as high as possible, and probably without factoring the costs - infrastructure, extra street cleaning etc.
And that’s just the simple costs. It won’t include disbenefits like time waiting to cross roads or extra dangers (real or perceived) that discourage people from cycling. (Just to think of two small examples).
Of course, it’s unlikely that people work out whether the benefits (especially income for CEC) ever happen or factor in things like loss of shops/jobs caused by mega developments at The Gyle, St. James or wherever.
Well shiny malls and parking are what people WANT - the developers made it so. (With a lot of help from taxpayers’ money.)
Posted 7 years ago # -
@Roibeard, sure but that was eight years ago. Not aware of any consultation between then and 2014, much less any before 2016 when designs were rubber stamped.
In any case, the Picardy Place Development Principles are robust enough. How did they get from there to the current gyratory design?
My suspicion is the 2007 TIE design was just easier as it was already there. Tweaked with some sops to all-powerful cycling lobby. If anyone complains again, just cite "traffic modelling". Job's a good 'un. That'll be £61 mil, cheers guv.
Posted 7 years ago # -
new public realm at Picardy Place, together with the provision of a multi-modal transport interchange at the junction of Leith Walk, Leith Street & York Place.
This is patently untrue. A new tram stop and a loose collection of bus stops on already congested pavements 100-200 metres away across 3 lanes of traffic does not a multi-modal transport interchange make.
As for the pubic realm - I suppose the public will have right to roam across all that new tarmac, but I wouldn't like to take a view on the life expectancy of the individuals who exercised that right.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@PS, they dropped "multi-modal" when they refreshed the report in 2016.
"I suppose the public will have right to roam across all that new tarmac"
Aye, if you're driving a motor vehicle. Maybe that's what "public realm" means: public realm for motor vehicles and their occupants.
Posted 7 years ago # -
public realm for motor vehicles and their occupants
Yep. When it's built I plan to take my 13 year old dirty diesel and drive it round in circles making as much noise and belching as much smoke as possible.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Secret deals and hotels, that’s unusual...
“
They have warned swift action is needed to head off the prospect of the iconic Calton Hill building becoming home to a “cheap and cheerful” chain because plans for a luxury hotel on the site have attracted so much opposition.
They have urged the local authority to lift the lid on a secret deal surrounding the A-listed landmark, which has been at the centre of huge controversy since designs for a “six-star hotel” on the site were revealed three years ago.
“
Posted 7 years ago # -
Not here, but -
"
“Remember this is a brand new, high profile office building in the cycling capital of the UK – how has something so rubbish been built? Do we blame the developers who built it, or the Council that gave it planning permission?”
"
http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/cambridges-useless-new-cycle-park-354757
Posted 7 years ago # -
"First look"?
I think anyone with camera and/or eyes has had just as good a look at the site, if not better, than that article provides!
Posted 7 years ago # -
“
Over 19,700 tonnes of material - the equivalent of 164 blue whales - has been recycled and reused onsite for construction purposes.
“
A new version of the ‘size of Wales’ measurement, but, “onsite”??
I wonder how many extra whales ere unearthed for the carpark.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Which is heavier, a tonne of whales or a tonne of rubble?
Posted 7 years ago # -
Ton, tonne or feathers?
Posted 7 years ago # -
The appropriate unit for quantity of rubble is the "Olympic sized swimming pool". You could probably get quite a few blue whales in 1 Ossp so they obviously went for the more impressive whale measure.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I like the idea of ghostly blue whales swimming through a noumenal St James Center filter feeding for the remains of broken consumer dreams.
Posted 7 years ago # -
CAUTION!
Sometime between 6pm and 10.30pm tonight two large holes have opened up in the Leith St cycleway, and instead of being diverted around it, the cycleway has been closed with poor signage top and bottom
You now have to
mix with pedestriansdismount twice and the fully signalled merge/demerge at the south end is gone - pretty much back to day 1 arrangement.Posted 7 years ago # -
Looks to be partially restored this morning. The lower/north entrance is now further away from Calton Road - the vehicle channel has been narrowed, with vehicles heading to Calton Road jinking to the right, with the exit/entrance to the cycle lane at the apex, then both lanes curve back to meet the footway at the corner/point.
The narrowness of the lane before the cycle bit splits off will make it trickier for the people choosing not to heed the lights in either direction.Posted 7 years ago # -
Just an observation: it's really staggering the number of drivers who drive up Calton Road past two ROAD CLOSED signs then pull a frantic U-turn when they realise there's literally no way they can get onto Leith Street.
Posted 7 years ago # -
They were doing repairs to the left lane of the Waterloo Place junction eastbound earlier this week, so maybe that's what they were doing to the cycle lane too? Seemed fine this morning. I'm happy with the occasional diversion onto the pedestrian path - I got sent there a few weeks ago when they were doing a quick bit of work at the top. Seems like a better compromise than not having the cycleway at all on the justification that it may occasionally be blocked - it is essentially running directly through the middle of a live building site after all!
Posted 7 years ago # -
The amount of pedestrians in the cycle lane yesterday evening (around 5pm) was mind blowing. It seemed like a second pedestrian walkway. Bell ringing got ignored by most of them. Dismounting was the only option. Dismounting and pushing your bike through the pedestrians on a cycle lane.
And nobody there in to guide pedestrians into the correct lane. With all the christmas shoppers at the moment it would be great if the people in highvis who are normally positioned at the ends of cycle and walkway also could be there during the weekend. Otherwise - I predict - someone will get hurt.Posted 6 years ago # -
The temporary layout at the moment is very confusing with poor sightlines. A few days ago I found myself walking in the traffic lane, then the bike lane.
I think it is beholden on motorists and cyclists alike to proceed with caution on Leith Street at the moment.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I really enjoyed using the Leith Street lanes yesterday but, yeah, on the way down the hill there were a lot of peds in it, through ignorance rather than malice or mischief, I think.
Firstly, a bunch of East Asian tourists with wheelie cases, then a couple holding hands, then a mother and child. Got past them okay with a bell ring and a “take care, you’re in a cycle lane”. No aggro either way. By the bottom, I did wonder if people were using it as the most direct way to get to John Lewis, as you can avoid the guddle of crossing Calton Road, Starbucks pavement and Greenside.
On the way up the hill I completely missed the entrance to the cycle lane. Not sure why - maybe the cone chicane makes it less obvious?
Posted 6 years ago #
Reply »
You must log in to post.
posts
