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St James Redevelopment

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  1. crowriver
    Member

    I had occasion to walk around Montrose Terrace and Regent Road yesterday afternoon.

    Traffic is hellish, huge tailbacks leading to 'frustrated' drivers jumping the lights at the junction with Easter Road, thus blocking it for pedestrians and traffic going the other way after the pedestrian phase.

    On the positive side, Royal Terrace is blocked off with barriers at the junction with Regent Road, presumably to stop folk trying to rat run between there and Elm Row/ Leith Walk. So that and Regent Terrace are very nice quiet routes for pedestrians and potentially cyclists - though watch the cobbles. Over the next year I may walk that way to the city centre in preference to either London Road or Regent Road, especially at busy times.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  2. chdot
    Admin

    "I'm waiting for the report back of someone who's tried this Northbound..."

    WELL

    Disgraceful springs to mind.

    Down North Bridge much as usual, new road markings at bottom.

    Bear right, look for 'cyclists this way' nothing obvious until almost at the east pavement of LSt.

    Then most welcoming pedestrians and cyclists signs with arrows. Tilt left.

    Roll merrily against the (non-existent/diverted) traffic stream.

    THEN get to the cyclists dismount sign with 'minders'.

    Actually dismounted.

    Nice person said 'just push your bike along the pavement for a bit'.

    I said 'no, I'm just going that way' and pointed to southbound carriageway.

    (I had noticed that there was merely a flimsy bit of red/white tape).

    'No you can't do that it's a building site, the police will stop you'.

    At which point the only policeman in sight set off on his motorbike.

    So I then ducked under the tape and was told 'ok mind the traffic'.

    Another minder shouted after me saying I couldn't do that because it was a "building site".

    Clearly I was being irresponsible and giving all cyclists a bad name.

    But as it's Sunday there didn't seem to be much building (demolition) going on.

    IF it's so dangerous the HSE should be having words with whoever thinks a bit of tape is enough protection.

    Clearly there should be some nice Heras fencing - a metre or more to the left (we are talking about the whole width of Leith Street here.)

    Posted 7 years ago #

  3. wingpig
    Member

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Flash Videos

    Southbound relatively easy, as Dougal noted, providing you're on a single-track vehicle of no more than two metres' length, without significant panniers. No way in hell a velomobile would get through there except on end, and little chance of getting a trailer through without dismounting and dragging it round the corners sideways. No hassle from the operative at the Wellington Place end, but I was out before the potential northbound cyclist approaching from the right arrived.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  4. chdot
    Admin

    Signs -

    Building site -

    Posted 7 years ago #

  5. mgj
    Member

    So, heading Northbound, there are no signs to indicate where cyclists should go, or where they should rejoin the carriageway. Workie in hi viz sent me to walk across the pavement and over Greenside so then rejoin after the ped crossing. Presumably this is easier for them than having a phase on the crossing that isn't pedestrians or Greenside traffic.

    Added 2 minutes to my journey I guess. Leith Walk itself much quieter than usual. I wonder where the traffic has gone (especially as I have to drive later in the week...)

    Posted 7 years ago #

  6. neddie
    Member

    Are they seriously going to have 2 officious guys at each end of this "cycle lane" for the entire 40-odd week closure?

    Surely it would have been easier and cheaper just to have implemented the cycle lane properly i.e contiguous and without conflict with pedestrians.

    T.I.E. I guess.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  7. dougal
    Member

    I assumed the hiviz crew were there for "opening night only" but who know. They obviously can't be there all the time - last night at 9.30PM the cycle lane was full of pedestrians walking down Leith Street. The flimsy tape between footpath and cycle lane seems permeable after all...

    Posted 7 years ago #

  8. neddie
    Member

    It's rather telling that where there is conflict with pedestrians, motorists get a "Beware Pedestrians Crossing" sign, whereas cyclists get a "Cyclists Dismount".

    How about the signs were reversed?

    "Motorists Get Out And Push" and "Cyclists Beware Pedestrians Crossing"

    IMG_4334 by Ed, on Flickr

    IMG_4284 by Ed, on Flickr

    Posted 7 years ago #

  9. amayze
    Member

    I had the misfortune to ride Leith Street yesterday. South Bound with my family, who aren't that experienced, and North Bound, thankfully, on my own at night. I'm still angry about it now! So I've written to my councillors using writetothem.com. Copy of letter below:

    Dear Marion Donaldson, Lewis Ritchie, Susan Rae and Amy McNeese-Mechan,

    I am writing to you with regard to the temporary (10 month) closure of Leith Street to motor vehicles and the provision made for cyclists in this area.

    Leith Street is part of my cycle route to work and has been unpleasant to cycle on in recent months. I was therefore looking forward to the the closure to motor traffic and the opportunity to have at least part of the street be traffic free with good quality cycle and pedestrian infrastructure temporarily installed. I have ridden both ways through the cycle lane and am shocked at how poorly it has been designed, to the point of being dangerous.

    I outline my concerns below for travelling in direction :

    South Bound:
    1. Chicanes - these make access difficult for all cyclists and prohibit use of the lane by anything other than a standard bicycle, i.e. adapted bicycles for the disabled, tandems, recumbents and bicycles with trailers - for freight or children.
    2. Cyclist dismount signs - these signs are indicative of a bad design. As far as I am aware they are not enforceable and just show that the designer of the lane has been lazy. If I am riding my bike, I want to ride it, I do not want to walk while pushing it.
    3. Junction with Regent Road - There is no provision for cyclists to re-join the carriage way in a safe and controlled manner. Having dismounted as instructed and fought through the pedestrians crossing the top of Leith Street I had to rely on looking at the Green Man on the crossing of Regent Road to indicate that it was safe for me to proceed across Regent Road and on to North Bridge. This is unacceptable, why have the lights not been retained here for pedestrians and cyclists? Just because motor vehicles are not using the junction does not mean that it does not need signals.

    North Bound:
    1. Access - Approaching from South Bridge the cyclist is presented with a line of barriers with no indication of where to turn left. Fortunately I was making this journey at night and there were few pedestrians around. Had this been at a busy time I would have had to stop my bike and dismount in the carriage way with cars behind me, fight my way across the flow of pedestrians, negotiate the chicane and then re-mount my bicycle.
    2. Chicanes - see above for South Bound
    3. No Entry sign - On exiting the cycle lane travelling North one is presented with a NO ENTRY sign. This is unbelievable! The choices are to ignore it and cycle in to oncoming traffic until the two way section of Leith Street, or dismount and cross the lanes of traffic, walk down the pavement past Starbucks and then find a way to get back across the road and rejoin the north bound side of Leith Street.

    I am aware that the Council is doing a lot of work to promote active travel, however having cycled on Leith Street I feel like a second class citizen. Such a diversionary route, if it were being designed for cars, would include temporary traffic lights, good signage, no deliberate obstruction of the carriage way and no instructions for the driver to get out of their car and push it along the pavement.

    I would be most grateful if you could raise my concerns with those responsible for these works, both at the Council and the Developers. The provision for cyclists is poorly designed, inconvenient to use and down right dangerous.

    This is not a short term closure of Leith Street. There is time to improve the design and it MUST be improved.

    Yours sincerely,

    Andrew May

    Posted 7 years ago #

  10. neddie
    Member

    Very good letter, amayze

    Posted 7 years ago #

  11. neddie
    Member

    Regarding the temporary cycle lanes, David Key (Edinburgh's Cycling Champion) is on the case.

    Apparently the lane just needs some "finessing". Let's see what that means...

    From David Key:

    I was down at Leith Street earlier and watched proceedings. Definitely a need for more signage generally and a rethink of the northern cycleway where it meets traffic at the bottom of the scheme. Cyclists were ignoring stewards and heading into the opposite one way traffic flow. At the southern end there is no clear direction signage for cyclists/pedestrians as they emerge. Much reliance on stewards.

    The stewards are on site for three weeks I'm told and are doing a good job. <redacted> ...there's a TMRP meeting planned for Thursday to reassess the scheme.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  12. Min
    Member

    Yes. More signs are what is needed. They are always the answer. Always.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  13. Nelly
    Member

    When the first cycle on pedestrian accident happens (and it will) lets see the reaction from the EEN etc.

    Are people actually employed as cycle champion?

    Perhaps I can apply as i have half a clue what being a cyclist is about.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  14. mgj
    Member

    I met a cyclist coming down it yesterday who seemed confused that I was cycling on the left, so maybe signs are needed for the hard of thinking

    Posted 7 years ago #

  15. Min
    Member

    They were probably just confused that you were going in the opposite direction at all since the lane is only really one bike wide.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  16. jonty
    Member

    What are other people's experience - are drivers just avoiding the whole area? I got from Calton Road to the Meadows via Chambers Street without interacting with a single vehicle going in the same direction at 5.20pm (and didn't need to stop once.) Lovely ride - is it now typical?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  17. crowriver
    Member

    My experience on Sunday afternoon was there was lots of traffic on Calton Road. Might have been the TOB/city ride/Holyrood Park road closure effect. There were also cars diverted from Regent Road down Calton Hill to join Calton Road - temporary just for the cycling events? Or is this in place for the next year?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  18. jonty
    Member

    Must have been temporarily, there's been nothing much coming down there during the week. Increase in cars coming down Calton Road though, with a steward intervening at the pedestrian crossing - I think I saw him stopping traffic as I came past this morning.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  19. chdot
    Admin

    "I think I saw him stopping traffic as I came past this morning"

    Think that's what they do (no idea if legally) and only for 3 weeks(?)

    Posted 7 years ago #

  20. dougal
    Member

    Amount of traffic passing through the remaining portions of Leith Street seems to be increasing again. Queue length back to normal this morning (ie, through both sets of traffic lights and the tail at PP roundabout).

    Posted 7 years ago #

  21. chdot
    Admin

    "Increase in cars coming down Calton Road though"

    Yes.

    I understand 'access to the station', but it's mostly a ratrun.

    Any chance of "taxis only"?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  22. jonty
    Member

    The one way-ness means you can't block people at the other end, and all of the possible exits from there successfully avoid the closure.

    Perhaps a block at New Street and temporary traffic lights over the currently-one-way section??

    Posted 7 years ago #

  23. Stickman
    Member

    http://www.broughtonspurtle.org.uk/news/cyclists-push-back-leith-street-tight-squeeze

    Posted 7 years ago #

  24. kaputnik
    Moderator

    From Abbey Hill up to Abbey Mount heading out of town is more particularly bad than ever. I'm avoiding London Road pretty much entirely now and going round the back of Meadowbank Shopping Centre and out at Albion Road or Bothwell Street instead.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  25. dougal
    Member

    Pamphlet through the door yesterday about the rejigging of Picardy Place. Public information session in Valvona VinCaffe on the afternoon/evening of Friday 22 and during day of Saturday 23. I will be away that weekend of course...

    Posted 7 years ago #

  26. Min
    Member

    From the Spurtle article.

    At least towards the bottom of the closure, cyclists and pedestrians are kept apart by an impenetrable line of blue safety-string. (Unfortunately, invisible at night.)

    I can attest to that having nearly walked into it last night. Luckily my husband noticed and stopped me from coming a cropper.

    And the bit of paint in the road? Ludicrous.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  27. neddie
    Member

    The spirally bridge is getting cut up and taken to bridge heavenjunkyard. Such is our wasteful society.

    Leith St will be shut to all during the evening/night hours on Fri/Sat 15th/16th

    https://twitter.com/SpokesLothian/status/907648350153043968

    Posted 7 years ago #

  28. neddie
    Member

    The TRMP met on Thurs 7th Sept to discuss the temporary cycle lanes. Some of the responses:

    The members of the TMRP are of the view the cycleway between Calton Road to Waterloo Place on Leith Street does connect easily and safely at both ends when cyclists dismount as per the installed signage.

    No prospect of cycleways for the Easter Rd gyratory because of buses swept path and, well, because cars... They may open up Calton Tce Brae to bikes.

    The overall attitude of the TMRP seems to be cyclists can dismount and have chicanes. Cars and buses have priority.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  29. kaputnik
    Moderator

    TMRP = ?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  30. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Traffic Management Review Panel

    Posted 7 years ago #

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