“If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way”
Is that legally enshrined “priority” or ‘in the nice world of the HC’ priority?
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
St James Redevelopment
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Posted 7 years ago #
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Reminder: Today
Picardy Place 'consultation'
WHEN: Friday 22 September, 4pm–7pm; Saturday 23 September, 10am–4pm WHERE: Valvona & Crolla Vincaffè, 11 Multrees Walk
*The Together for Edinburgh partnership comprises City of Edinburgh Council, Edinburgh St James [i.e. developers TH Real Estate], Laing O’Rourke, and the Scottish Futures Trust.
Refreshments will be available. See you there.
http://www.broughtonspurtle.org.uk/news/picardy-place-changing
Posted 7 years ago # -
I couldn't help grinning at this rarely observed rule:
178
Advanced stop lines. Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked. If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area. Allow cyclists time and space to move off when the green signal shows.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10, 36(1) & 43(2)Posted 7 years ago # -
"Is that legally enshrined “priority” or ‘in the nice world of the HC’ priority?"
As with most things, if the majority of pedestrians behaved as if this was legally enshrined (which it is, I think), then driver behaviour would adapt. Understandably most people don't want aggro or the risk of serious injury from large moving steel boxes so allow drivers to bully them.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Pondering this further:
A pedestrian is a road user. A pedestrian has the same rights as any other form of road traffic.
If a pedestrian is walking along the footway then the pedestrian is on a road - the footway is that part of the road designated for the use of pedestrians only.
At a junction where vehicles MUST give way to traffic on the road they are joint, then they MUST also give way to pedestrians on the road (i.e. the continuation of the footway) that they are joining.
Posted 7 years ago # -
0
Basic human decency
You MUST NOT just barge into someone because they're in your way, no matter how important you think you are.Posted 7 years ago # -
1st impressions don't look good
https://twitter.com/DominicMHinde/status/911244475632111618
And doesn't sound like they are taking feedback either :-(
Posted 7 years ago # -
Well that was entertaining.
Arrived right on 4 to find quite a few people already in the room (upstairs) and having conversations with a council official and various consultants.
Event part of consultation process.
But not as 'we' know it...
Apparently the tram parliamentary process allows CEC to get on with redesigning the roundabout area.
AND the design brief was for as much traffic as currently (before the closure of Leith Street) - with allowance for more!
All agreed by The Council (ie reports approved at various meetings over the past 10 years).
EDIT
Also this is not subject to the normal planning process.
It remains to be whether the new SNP/Lab council will have a different view to the old Lab/SNP one.
As well as what the people who turn up to this "consultation" say, councillors need to realise that things have moved on massively since this all started.
Increasingly (more) European and North American cities are realising that things like Picardy Place need replacing - NOT with something tragically similar.
Also SG has changed its tune on #ActiveTravel very recently.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"Is this a consultation, or 'here are the plans, suck it up'?"
"Well, the plans are pretty far down the line."Posted 7 years ago # -
Popped in briefly. Everyone I overheard was irate at the lack of consultation and the apparent finality of the plans. The council officer was insistent that it all met with council design principles.
One of the displays said how the road design would encourage low speeds and give pedestrians a "sense" of priority. On a 3 lane gyratory.
Posted 7 years ago # -
AND the design brief was for as much traffic as currently (before the closure of Leith Street) - with allowance for more!
Oh dear.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Consultants putting on the event -
"
We're a communications, media and public affairs consultancy specialising in UK and international real estate and the built environment
"
Posted 7 years ago # -
Eeeeeesh.
They're saying that because they only have three lanes rather than the four lanes in the 2012 plan that THIS IS BETTER.Posted 7 years ago # -
IMG_20170922_172548636 by wingpig, on Flickr
IMG_20170922_175923768 by wingpig, on Flickr
IMG_20170922_173050699 by wingpig, on Flickr
IMG_20170922_172425538 by wingpig, on Flickr
IMG_20170922_172436739 by wingpig, on Flickr
IMG_20170922_175038270 by wingpig, on Flickr
IMG_20170922_175933302 by wingpig, on Flickr
IMG_20170922_175911528 by wingpig, on Flickr
Posted 7 years ago # -
Posted 7 years ago #
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Today about 3:30, total gridlock G IV Bridge, Market St, Waverley Bridge.
No doubt some unable to go down Leith Street, but really, time to plan for LESS motor traffic.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"
Picardy Place forms a principal road junction to the north east of Edinburgh City Centre, situated within the Edinburgh World Heritage Site and the New Town Conservation Area.
Working alongside Laing O’Rourke for the City of Edinburgh Council and Scottish Government, TH Real Estate – the developer of Edinburgh St James – in line with the Growth Accelerator Model agreement, has commissioned a team to prepare a comprehensive design package for the remodelling of roads and public realm at Picardy Place.
The design seeks to provide an optimised layout, which better addresses and improves pedestrian, cycle and vehicle movement and which best utilises the space in order to achieve this.
The City of Edinburgh Council will consider the finalised designs and agree the detailed programme for delivery of these works.
"
Posted 7 years ago # -
They're reputedly aware of the upcoming council plan to put up signs near tram tracks asking cyclists to watch it and drivers to chill, prior to painting guide lines in the road to guide cyclists across the tracks at the recommended angle. They're aware of the MacDonald Road junction's advance cycle green, but seemingly had no intention to combine the two so that cyclists will have an opportunity to try and cross the two sections of track-conflict without an angry taxi driver peeping up their mudguard.
Pedestrians will not have to wait more than a minute to cross as the signals will cycle quickly, they say; I expressed some doubt.
Posted 7 years ago # -
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The City of Edinburgh Council will consider the finalised designs
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OK, when and how exactly?
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and agree the detailed programme for delivery of these work
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Right, so CEC WILL just rubber stamp it "in line with the Growth Accelerator Model"????
Posted 7 years ago # -
So it's all Lab/SNP CEC's fault
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5.0
Case Study: Edinburgh St James QuarterThe Project
St James Quarter (SJQ) was the first large-scale infrastructure development to receive GA support, with City of Edinburgh Council (CEC) instrumental in developing the approach. Built in the 1960s at the top of Leith Walk in Edinburgh, the St James Centre incorporated a shopping centre, an office block and a hotel; and for a number of years was regarded as being past it best by many. To this end, CEC had a vision to update and regenerate the St. James quarter, working with the private sector to delivery change. To achieve this, SFT, together with SG and CEC, developed the GA to unlock the potential economic growth and investment.
The Growth Accelerator support focuses on the delivery of c.£60m of public sector enabling spend, which in turn will create the right conditions to unlock over £1Bn of private sector investment, alongside meeting the strategic priorities of the Council to deliver city-centre improvements and inclusive economic growth. During 2016/17, work started on demolishing the site to create a new destination, incorporating 750,000 sq. ft. of retail space, a five-star hotel and up to 250 private residential apartments, due for completion by 2021.
"
https://www.scottishfuturestrust.org.uk/storage/uploads/Growth_Accelerator_-_Guidance.pdf
Can it be unpicked?
Any political will to do so?
Was this (for or against) in anyone's manifesto?
Posted 7 years ago # -
How ironic that the "consultation" on a city-centre 3 lane motorway junction was held on "World Car-Free Day"
Posted 7 years ago # -
Just to be clear - this is not about 'cycling'.
This is not about 'pedestrian experience/priority'.
This is about the future of Edinburgh -
As retail.
As business as usual - large stores and more hotels.
As traffic as usual.
As the mistakes of the last 50 years revisited.
Etc.
Ignoring the changed world -
(desire for) better use of public space - achieved in MANY other cities
on-line retail
'shopping as pleasurable experience' - nice places to be, pedestrianisation (like Glasgow!)
Public Transport, tram extension
ActiveTravel, (FINALLY) a public bike hire scheme
OR SG sponsored carmaggedon?
Really?
Posted 7 years ago # -
It's probably all lost -
"
Commenting on the proposed works programme, Councillor Lesley Macinnes, Convenor of Transport and Environment at City of Edinburgh Council, said: “The reconfiguration of Picardy Place is a crucial part of improving what is a key gateway to Edinburgh, regenerating the east end of the city centre and future-proofing the site for future development.
“I’m pleased that the designs have been updated and improved to reflect feedback received from cycle and other interest groups, and that they now pay much closer attention to the needs of all road users, however they may be travelling.
"
http://www.insider.co.uk/news/new-plans-picardy-place-edinburghs-11200829.amp
Posted 7 years ago # -
Advice from Claire Miller:
"Please contact members of the Transport and Environment Committee to tell them you want a radical rethink of this design. Explain why.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"
Have your say
If you wish to express an opinion – and the developers assure us that this is indeed a consultation exercise not information about a fait accompli – then the developers have provided complimentary paper slips with 4 lines of 9cm each.
Alternatively, you can email them at: esjcommunity@laingorourke.com You must do so in the next few days.
The developers assure Spurtle that all comments will be collated and presented to the Council to accompany a report which will be discussed and voted upon by the Transport & Environment Committee on 5 October.
Reactions
Representatives of the developer told us yesterday that reaction on the day had generally been supportive.
The reactions we’ve heard and read are ones of deep disappointment or active hostility (see Twitter screenshots for examples).
"
http://www.broughtonspurtle.org.uk/news/picardy-place-%E2%80%93-have-your-say
Posted 7 years ago # -
"A traffic consultant working for the developers told Spurtle yesterday that cyclist safety was a key consideration in the design, but it would be counterproductive to introduce a bottleneck into the network here which did not cater for the predicted level of motor traffic."
That is to say, it's a key consideration except people being safe is less of a priority compared to the God of Motor Traffic. Not a key consideration then.
Posted 7 years ago # -
There is no bottleneck.
Leith Walk has operated with 1 effective lane for 24 months
Leith Street has operated with 1 effective lane for 24 months
York Place has operated with 1 lane since the tram stop opened
Broughton St is one lane
The solution to these roads all converging is not to give the junction the combined road lane-age of every feeder. Motor traffic doesn't work like that.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Went to have a look at this. Key points for me;
1) It's every bit as grim as it looks. 1960s London comes to Edinbugh.
2) The development is being delivered by the luxury hotel people.
3) They don't care what the design is, they just want it done and dusted.So it's possible the hotel people are our friends. We oppose this as hard as we can with the council and they'll come under pressure to do whatever's necessary to just deliver from the hotel.
I wouldn't trust the developers to transmit my message to the council, kind of them though it is to offer.
Posted 7 years ago # -
They've already lied to the Spurtle, so it's safe to assume they'll also lie to the council. Best to copy local representatives into any emails sent to the developers.
Posted 7 years ago #
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