My 'in theory' post and (false) equivalence with otherwise law-abiding was in response to ih (with whom there is most certainly an agreement with what should actually be the setup there) :)
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Calton Road closed (or not)
(178 posts)-
Posted 7 years ago #
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so the solution is simply to remove the lines marking the cycle lane
But they can't remove the red chips in the QBC tarmac, so surely motorists will still regard that as cyclelane so avoid driving on it...?
Posted 7 years ago # -
Hahahahahahahahahaha!
Good one PS!
Posted 7 years ago # -
There's always the Chuck Jones solution of painting a cycle lane/double yellows around the curve of the road (across the mouth of Calton Road), encouraging someone to park there, effectively blocking it.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Well barriers all intact this evening. Drivers seem to have finally given up.
It's a very narrow gap between the barriers at the top end, even for a pedestrian. I wouldn't cycle through it.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Genuine question: if we think that the barriers should be widened slightly and cycles excepted from the closure, why don't we think they should be widened a little more and car priority signs, like at a chicane, put in too?
Is it just revelling in having a road that probably ought not to be open for through traffic being closed? If so, fair enough - I like it too. I just wondered if there was something more fundamental about it.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@jonty I come at this from the disregard of the road closed signs. But bear with me and I will get to the wider point as I see it.
The road is closed to traffic but that is ignored by cyclists as they can squeeze through and then by car drivers who must cause some bother by dismantling the barriers.
There does not seem to be any movement on fixing the damage caused by the Matthew Clark delivery lorry. I often wonder if this was the same lorry that decided to drive straight into me and then complained I was over reacting after I had to move my bike onto the pavement and the lorry had forced me off the road from a parked position outside the Tron which was on the wrong side of the road. Anyway maybe someone wants some response from Matthew Clark? Good luck there.
Anyway, bit of back story re bad driving specifically linked to the culprit.
Next, it takes a closed road on two sides at that junction to make it safe for cycling. So I think that is the wider point. I.e. It takes a drinks lorry crashing into a wall and a shopping centre being knocked down before a road is safer to cycle on
Posted 7 years ago # -
"It takes a drinks lorry crashing into a wall and a shopping centre being knocked down before a road is safer to cycle on"
Yeah. Sad, really isn't it.
Have to say though now that the road really is properly closed it's so much more pleasant as a pedestrian.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Well said @gembo.
When the road was "closed" but not closed it was actually more dangerous for pedestrians etc as drivers would follow the if-I-break-the-rules-fast-enough-it-doesn't-count approach. With only half the road width available I saw lots of nearly-smashes. Now that it's actually physically closed it's like finding the silence when the aircon turns off.
I have no problems getting off my bike, though that doesn't mean other people with cargo bikes, trikes, wheelchairs are going to find the intended "no vehicles" access so pleasing. I'm not at all clear if a person wheeling a bicycle is still a vehicle? If someone got out their car and pushed it would they be allowed through?
Posted 7 years ago # -
The whole question of 'If I get off my bike, what if?' is exactly why bikes are not cars and trying to classify them as such is folly.
Posted 7 years ago # -
My assumption is that if I dismount I can push my bike over a pedestrian crossing. Indeed I do this every night at the bottom of st Mary's street to avoid a tricky right turn (well this assumes I have waited at the high street left turn as I know despite what car drivers might want to do that the lights at cowgate will be red.
When taking the left at the high street I go way wide to avoid the many pedestrians who walk blindly onto the road.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"
Rule 79
Do not ride across equestrian crossings, as they are for horse riders only. Do not ride across a pelican, puffin or zebra crossing. Dismount and wheel your cycle across.
"
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82
Posted 7 years ago # -
A bike is classed as a vehicle, whether you are riding it or not. However, there is a specific exemption in the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984 that means it is not an offence to push a bike along a pavement. I can't find any legislation that makes it a specific offence to push over a pedestrian crossing. However, there is English case law that indicates it is not an offence.
It is an offence for someone driving or propelling a vehicle (which would probably include pushing a car) to fail to comply with road signs or markings - S.36 Road Traffic Act 1988.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Yes I was pulled up by gendarmes cycling over a ped crossing at the station. One hilarious day when hundreds of peds walked out in front of me without looking.
But two wrongs etc
Posted 7 years ago # -
I've had second (or is it third) thoughts about legality or otherwise of cycling past the barrier.
The only road sign there iirc is 'Road Closed' and I refer to the UK Road Traffic Signs manual chapter 8, concerning road works, that describes this sign:
" D3.15.14 The “ROAD CLOSED” sign variant to diagram 7010.1 is used to indicate that the road, beyond the point at which it is placed, is closed to traffic. The shortest route of adequate width and available height should be signed with the “Diversion” sign to diagram 2702. Chapter 8 signing might still be needed within the closed section of a highway or road as there are likely to be exemptions to the closure order, e.g. emergency services, frontage requiring vehicular access, pedestrians."First, this sign is an 'information' sign, not a prohibition sign;
Second, note that it should be accompanied by a diversion sign, which it isn't;
Third, note that there is a recommendation to make provision for certain exceptions, and although cycles aren't specifically mentioned, there's no reason to exclude cycles as an exception.
Furthermore, this chapter of the manual is all about roadworks, and running through the chapter is the idea that the roadworks should be completed as soon as practicable, and with as little disruption as possible.Given the above, I would interpret the situation on the road as follows;
If Calton Road is definitely blocked all the way across, I would dismount and walk past on the narrow footway;
If the barrier has been partially removed, I would regard the sign as inaccurate as the road patently is not closed, and I would, with great care for all concerned, cycle through the open gap, and I would not believe I was doing anything wrong or illegal.And, the fact that the road has been "closed" for 5 months indicates that it is not being treated as "roadworks" but something less temporary, which should be subject to a higher level of traffic regulation than a simple 'Road Closed' sign.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Yeah, I don't it's the the legal aspect. It's more the manners that are the issue, surely?
A fairly quiet street now that cars can't drive through at speed, but at some times of day quite a few pedestrians. When I was walking home on Friday evening it was surprisingly busy, and the gap between the barriers very narrow. I wouldn't have appreciated anyone trying to cycle through it, frankly. Also with such a narrow gap I wouldn't cycle though it myself.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Well that didn't last long. This morning, the red and white barriers have been cleared to either side, and the crowd barriers along one side have been de-triangulated and pushed flat up against the wall, blocking the footpath.
One crowd barrier on the left is still sticking into the road at a jaunty angle, meaning the gap remaining is not quite wide enough for a motor vehicle. I imagine if any motorist were very keen to drive down Calton Road it could be moved in a jiffy.
Dunno if this was the work of guerrilla drivers or cyclists/motorcyclists, but I suspect the former.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Perhaps CEC will scrutinise CCTV to find the person who is far too important to have the road closed in front of them.
Perhaps not.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I'm guessing the barriers are being moved by delivery vehicles. Only way they can access the back of the Waterloo Place hotels - due to the low bridge at Calton Road / New Street.
I've watched that junction on many occasion and never spotted anybody moving them. Guess the council aint really bothered / too skint / no staff available to do anything about it.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Interested to see that the barricades are all back in place this evening. New cable ties on the crowd barriers. Red and white tank traps back across the carriageway. Very narrow gap at the top once more.
So nice and quiet...
Posted 7 years ago # -
The barriers were back in action by 18h00 last night. I cycled behind 4 cars that had taken the Leith Street exit to Calton Road only to be confronted by the barrier. Two signalled right to sheepishly rejoin Leith Street; two ignored the no entry sign and shot up Calton Hill.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Saw two produce delivery vehicles tear through the No Entry signs at speed this morning (around 7am)and head up Calton Hill.
Given it's a blind bend, someone coming down the other way on foot, on bike or in a vehicle is going to get very badly hurt soon.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Worth reporting this to the City Centre Team and Police Scotland. Maybe we can get some action on enforcement going...
Posted 7 years ago # -
Situation report
ULTRA CLOSED!
Full width of road barricaded off. Peds made to use the steps outside the Black Bull.
Posted 7 years ago # -
As I walked past this morning there were three vans doing a fun reversing dance trying to manoeuvre out of each other's way. Quite beautiful really, in a dangerous sort of way.
Posted 7 years ago # -
All avoidable if the left-filter lane to nowhere was also closed.
Posted 7 years ago # -
All avoidable if the left-filter lane to nowhere was also closed.
I've had that thought, but I presume it's been kept open to allow for access to the hotel's bins.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Might have something to do with the big air-con vents coming from the Black Bull? I notice the wall there was shored up with sturdy triangles of timber the other day. Maybe it's been deemed unsafe?
Anyway that's a bit of a pain for walking to the station now...
Posted 7 years ago # -
Given how many barriers there are I guess it would take a good hour to dismantle the blockage.
160521104816IMG_5419 by Paul fae Fountainbridge, on Flickr
Posted 7 years ago # -
Have they started work or has the wall fallen down some more?
Posted 7 years ago #
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