CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
I'm starting this as a place to discuss cycling issues in the Inch and surrounding areas (Craigmillar Park, Liberton, etc) and possible improvements that would make cycling easier for Inch residents.
The debate started on http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16025&page=2#post-211206
Might be good for anyone who knows the area to look at OSM and check that all paths/cut-throughs are marked.
And work out what's missing of course!
Quite an interesting group of CCEers live in/around The Inch.
If there are only a dozen people 'transport cycling' (random guess!) shouldn't be too hard to double that.
Perhaps someone could invite others for a meeting by PM.
It would be great to arrange a local meeting. Unfortunately there are no cafes (has anybody figured out yet when the cafe in Walter Scott Avenue is actually open?).
Perhaps we can arrange an infrastructure safari to discuss points for improvements, and then repeat it with council's cycling and/or local area team.
Obviously there are big obstacles like the Liberton Rd - Lady Rd - Cameron Toll barrier which is complex to sort out, but for the moment I was thinking of smaller changes that can be more easily done. I have emailed various officers and councillors over the years and found some willingness to listen, but the issues were often difficult to explain and it would help if it's not just coming from a single person.
As mentioned in the other thread, my Christmas present was an email from the council with drawings of a better pedestrian crossing of Old Dalkeith Road at the Recycling centre road (dropped kerbs on both sides at the traffic island, and a footpath connecting them to Dinmont Drive).
I had a few more local ideas on my regular routes, out of my head:
"Perhaps we can arrange an infrastructure safari"
Always fun. (Though a convenient cafe stop helps! Is there anything in Inch House?)
'I have emailed various officers and councillors over the years and found some willingness to listen, but the issues were often difficult to explain and it would help if it's not just coming from a single person."
Yes, individuals can make a difference and there are officials who want to get things done - in all sorts of different CEC sections (which is part of the problem). Better if several people are repeating a similar 'message' perhaps even better with a group/report.
Much easier with the Internet - you don't even need to meet! Though I think on this one working directly with local people (shock horror most aren't on CCE!!) could move things on quite well.
Just work round anyone who says 'we tried that before' or 'can't be done/no money'.
More history -
http://www.southedinburgh.net/history/greater-liberton-heritage-project/inch-house
Not much here -
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inch,_Edinburgh
Extended definition of The Inch -
Of course The Inch is already a cycling destination.
Might be able to get some http://www.edinburghrc.co.uk members to take an interest in 'routes to'...
@chdot Is that pic taken at one of the events where masses of enormous SUVs with bike racks descend on Inch Park and park on the grass along Glenallan Drive and the park road?
Edit: Sorry, too cynical - but seriously it's an issue that while many take part in the cycling events, not enough actually cycle to the event, and parking all over the grass has been an ongoing issue (sort of somewhat mitigated by the ugly crash barriers with "don't park on grass" signs that the council left lying around and that occasionally get blown around).
"Is that pic taken at one of the events where masses of enormous SUVs with bike racks descend on Inch Park and park on the grass along Glenallan Drive and the park road?"
Actually no - in the sense that this was a Club event rather than one of the races...
Back to the important issue: "Though a convenient cafe stop helps! Is there anything in Inch House?"
I don't think so. I went in twice (to Jim Eadie's MSP surgery), no cafe. The setup with the security door is all a bit uninviting and I think it's only used for groups which can hire the rooms. Somebody told me they hired it for a wedding, they must have had coffee then, so perhaps we can gate-crash?
I'm not aware of any cafes in the Inch, and it's not for lack of trying to find one. The one in Walter Scott Av I've never seen open. The nearest are Cameron Toll shopping centre, Royal Infirmary and Morrison's. Then there is a community cafe in Gilmerton (I think it's run by the church congregation but I've never tried it because it's up the hill) and the White House in Craigmillar.
Lack of cafes is one of the few serious problems around here, otherwise it's generally a nice area.
So
Inch needs a cycling cafe(?)
If only people could get there.
From an old Council report -
"
Recommendations
• Craigmillar Community Woodland Path Network needs to be seen as one link in an accessible chain of routes that begins at the Innocent Railway and provides links to destinations that include Peffermill Industrial Estate, Craigmillar Community Woodland, Inch Park , Cameron Toll and the N.E.R.I.. Ultimately this route is capable of reaching as far as the Blackford and Braid Hills.
• The decisions relating to the upgrading of path network must be integrated into the wider masterplanning of both Craigmillar and Craigmillar Castle Park .
• The first priority should be the upgrading to an all-weather surfaces of the arterial route connecting Bridge End Farm to Craigmillar Court. This must include provision of a light-controlled pedestrian crossing on Old Dalkeith Rd. considered
• The arterial route leading to the Council Depot also needs to be upgraded (either to a whin or macadam surface) with the option of a light considered.
"
Page 11
@chdot thanks, interesting! Do you know roughly from which time this is?
Many of the paths must have been upgraded since. The Bridgend-Craigmillar Court path ("Arterial Route One" on page 12) is nice wide and smooth tarmac now. "Arterial Route Two" (at the playground) has also been upgraded to macadam, used to be a mud trail.
The big remaining issue are really the Old Dalkeith Rd crossings. The report is in the right direction but nothing has happened. Now with the Bridgend community developing, perhaps the case becomes stronger.
Great to read "There is a general consensus that the best way to limit the unauthorised use of the Woodland by motorbikes is to increase the level of pedestrian traffic using the paths." The park is actually quite free of chicanes and barriers and I think this contributes to its popularity. Motorbikes can be seen/heard sometimes but it's much much less of an issue than some years ago. I wish other areas also removed chicanes to get more people on the paths.
I think 2002.
"has also been upgraded to macadam, used to be a mud trail"
The whole length or just from one end to the playground?
It's a while since I used it!
@chdot The whole length, but it gets torn up a bit by illegal motorbikes every now and then. They have redone it several times. It would really be better to have proper tarmac, but I don't have big problems (with mountain bike tires, the park is one of the reasons for having them).
Ah "macadam", I took that to mean 'proper' tarmac!
The Walter Scott cafe is no longer open. In a leap of astounding irony Julie - the owner and wild enthusiast for Scottish self-government got a job with Barrhead Travel and jacked in the catering trade.
Is Julie an entryist into the travel industry? Her mission to send old people and female people abroad permanently on cruises etc so that in the next generation or next breath ( you can choose) they will not be eligible to vote?
@gembo
My main grudge involved an esspresso machine which was on prominent display but which never worked. Not sure if that formed part of the successful competence-based interview with the proud British travel agent.
Individual voter registration will take care of pesky voting (though I am in favour of it).
There is also the Yes cafe in a very convenient location for discussing the Kirk Brae - Liberton Rd junction, which definitely should be part of the infrastructure safari.
The proximity to the whole Braid-Burn Pentlands to Porty route is worth mentioning at this point. Good routes within/around the area will eventually mean good routed further afield.
That sounds like a network.
@chdot Actually Inch is surprisingly well connected, but it's not so obvious as the North Edinburgh network. It took me years to find some of the connections and not get lost, as there is little/no signage.
In some cases, only individual locations (junctions) or short stretches are missing, not huge gaps.
"In some cases, only individual locations (junctions) or short stretches are missing, not huge gaps."
Many of which have already been added to the potentially very useful http://edinburgh.cyclescape.org
Eg - http://www.cyclescape.org/threads/1817
More - http://www.cyclescape.org/groups/6-edinburgh#recent-issues
Few points:
1) Cafes - this was something we missed living there, though there isn't much more at the new place. There's the Yes Café if "that way" inclined (which is prone to having vehicles parked outside, blocking the road...). Liberton Kirk is not far, with coffee mornings. Other alternatives would be the Robin's Nest pub, Northfield House Hotel is pretty good for dinner and I think they do lunch too, or the Braidburn Inn (average age about 70).
2)Connections - Stephan, I'm intrigued about what connections you know of! Any good ones you can share? Heading downhill I found it much easier in the morning to go down to Double Hedges Road (massive rat run) and turn from there onto Kirk Brae, than to go out at the top and bomb it down the hill! Nice ride across the bottom of the Hermitage from there too. A decent connection towards the west would be good though. Riding across the Braid Hills road or Mortonhall are amongst the scariest cycling experiences of my life! Going east towards Craigmillar, the park is good but very boggy.
3)Bad bits - the Liberton Brae/KB/Kirk Brae/Liberton Road crossroad is hideous. Parked cars on the corner on Kirk Brae make this worse than it could be - I sometimes bump up onto the pavement here to get past parked cars. Even worse coming up the hill with impatient drivers behind who want to overtake without any space. Nowadays I tend to take Gilmerton Road for that very reason. Kingston Avenue is a lovely street which would be well served by a set of Bollards halfway along. Nightmare on a weekend too, when Hospitalgoers park there. Small projects that would be welcome could be a decent crossing to aid with getting towards Craigmillar.
4)Pentlands to Portobello - this is on my patch now at the new house. Let's just say it looks like a fantastic idea, but I'd be quietly pessimistic about the quality as a cycle route. The path at present would need a lot of work. There's sections are very steep and may potentially need realignment, and the underfloor conditions are not ideal so may need a fair amount of reinforcement. I would absolutely love to see it come to fruition though!
I find the act of trying to get on Gilmerton Road from KB pretty horrendous. The options are:
1) zip down Esslemont Road then onto Lady Road, round the roundabout at the north entrance to Cameron Toll shopping centre and back up Lady Road before turning left onto Liberton Road and left into Gilmerton Road. This is not my favourite option due to the length and the dodgy roundabout but it is almost impossible to turn right (safely) into Liberton Road from Esslemont Road - no filter.
2) The shortest and flattest route. Take Ross Road or Blackbarony Road onto Gordon Terrace, turning right there and then left onto Liberton Road. Turn right at the lights into Gilmerton Road. Again this is not a nice right turn with traffic often rushing up behind at speed, so even as an experienced cyclist I often wimp out and cross on the pedestrian crossing (walking). A right filter would help but the council wouldn't listen last time that I proposed this.
3) South down Mayfield Road and across to Kirk Brae and left into Double Hedges. I often take this, but there are often long queues and a nasty hill with close passing cars.
4) South down Mayfield Road and across to Kirk Brae and then proceed up before turning off somewhere. Jolly big hill - not always attractive at the end of a hard day.
5) South down Mayfield Road and up Liberton Brae before turning into Orchardhead Road. This has the merit of avoiding most of the Kirk Brae traffic so that you can enjoy the pain of the steep hill in peace.
There must be quite a few KB cyclists facing this set of bad choices.
@newtoit
2) Not saying it's perfect, we definitely need a much better routes towards the centre. Liberton Rd - Cameron Toll is a huge barrier (when I have time and it's nice outside I often use Innocent but that's a long detour).
What I meant is that there are more routes than are obvious. There is Craigmillar Park toward Craigmillar/Innocent/fort Kinnaird/Musselburgh, Braid burn towards the West, and also you can get to Straiton (IKEA) reasonably direct through Ellen's Glen, Gracemount and Burdiehouse or (now better) Gilmerton Dykes Drive or Hyvot Loan to Lasswade Road onto the new Gilmerton-Roslin route. If you find the right roads it's quite direct with little traffic, but if you make a wrong turn you can go in circles forever.
There are a couple of muddy paths and far too many chicanes in Gilmerton but with political will this wouldn't be expensive to fix and improve considerably.
The think is, it's not like the North network where you get onto one dedicated path and then go straight on for ages, it's more about knowing the right roads that are direct but without traffic.
3) Kirk Brae - yes, hideous. I often go Kirk Brae - KB in the morning (downhills) but Gilmerton Rd in the evening. If Kirk Brae, I sometimes use the footpath up to the fire station and a beyond.
Kingston Av is terrible indeed. Where are you coming from? I it's RIE to KB, I would go Lammermoor Terrace - Ravenswood Av - Cumnor Cr - Robert Burns Drive.
@amir
3) When there is much traffic, I hop on the pavement at the junction and cycle up to Double Hedges Rd. No dropped kerb, but there is a damaged kerbstone that's easy to cycle onto. Or even go on the pavement at the bottom of Mayfield Rd where cars start to block the "cycle lane" and then use the pedestrian crossing. it depends on pedestrians, it's usually quiet enough but can be busy with KB staff&students around 5
6) Mayfield Road northwards, turn right into Wilton Road, use the pedestrian lights to get into the southbound bus lane on Craigmillar Park so you can go straight across into Liberton Rd (rather than the right turn from Esslemont rd). similarly in the morning I go up Lygon Road or Wilton Road rather than Esslemont as they have much less traffic and don't have the steep corners.
@amir - I've tried the Gordon Terrace to Liberton Road, left, then right into Gilmerton Road, and it is indeed terrifying at times.
The option I take is a modified 1 Gordon Terrace to Esslemont Road, then immediate right into Liberton Road.
Sounds similar, however I've found a line that allows for a safe right turn at the lights, protected from both streams of traffic by other vehicles.
Basically, you snuggle alongside the oncoming right turning traffic, so effectively you sit in the tangential gap they've opened up between the right turning lane and the straight ahead lane. Go far forward, effectively to the lane dividing line southbound for Liberton Road/Craigmillar Park.
You're protected from the rear by the right turning vehicle to your left, and can see along the right turn lane for a clear gap to make your turn.
When you do make your turn, you are turning into the bus lane, and any drivers waiting behind you can turn into the general traffic lane simultaneously.
I'm happy to demonstrate this one if the above isn't clear - I've even begun to consider this "sitting across the oncoming right turning lane" approach for turning right down the Royal Mile at the Bridges - previously I've been scared by being sandwiched between two double streams of vehicles, however whilst there are indeed two northbound lanes at this point, there is only one southbound lane, the outer one being right turn only. By blocking this lane for southbound traffic, I'm clear of the northbound traffic and have just one stream of southbound traffic to cross.
Still in an experimental phase for the Royal Mile junction, however I'm now confident enough of my Liberton Road line to let my eldest execute it unattended - something I wouldn't do for the other right turn.
I'm ruling out the Kirk Brae options as that's a pig of a climb, even to Double Hedges Row, with impatient drivers expecting to get past...
Robert
@amir
2) On Liberton Rd, turn off into Mid Liberton (cul-de-sac) before coming to the Gilmerton Rd junction. Turn left and there is a footpath connecting to Gilmerton Rd. have to go very slowly and there is a guardrail at the end, but it can actually be faster than waiting for a right turn at the traffic lights.
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