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New trains for Edinburgh-Glasgow

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  1. Arellcat
    Moderator

    I visited Waverley Station yesterday to see the mock-up of the interior of the new Hitachi electric trains for the Edinburgh-Glasgow Queen St route. Worth stopping by to try out the new contoured seats, luxuriate in the leg room for tall people, and to pore over the schematics.

    Three-carriage and four-carriage sets are planned, but each will still only provide for two bicycles. The bike space will be 2.34 metres long, multi-functional with tip-up seats, and there's a separate area for people in wheelchairs.

    The space between back-to-back seats looked enticingly Brompton-sized but I didn't get a chance to experiment.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  2. Ed1
    Member

    2 bikes per train? this is worse than what there is now

    Posted 8 years ago #

  3. jdanielp
    Member

    @Ed1 2 per carriage is what I read, so 6-8 per train.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  4. Ed1
    Member

    Oh yes does seem to read that way, but I guessed as never seen a train with a bike area in each carriage must be per train but hopefully each carriage as 2 per train means not getting on often.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  5. crowriver
    Member

    I saw this on Thursday: had ten minutes spare before my train, was intrigued and went for a look.

    Seems reasonably spacious. I asked about bike storage and the lady could only tell me that there were two spaces per train (I didm't ask for clarification, but I assume that's a three car configuration, so for eight cars could be four spaces, or six).

    I pointed to tip-up seats and asked if the bikes would go there, with velcro loops like on the North Berwick or Bathgate line services, but she didn't know for sure, and could only give me a maybe. I asked if they'd be like the Turbostars, i.e.. a "toast rack" storage solution and she didn't know either.

    I surprised myself as to how much I knew about train rolling stock, otherwise I was distinctly underwhelmed by the experience.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  6. Arellcat
    Moderator

    I studied the schematics fairly closely, and the four carriage formation had one bike space marked on it. Four is not two plus two or three plus one, it's four. No hanging rack à la Turbostars, since this would get in the way of the tip-up seats. The wheelchair spaces have a tip-up table.

    Unofficially, the space next to the accessible toilet (three and four carriage formations) could house a few folded bikes, but that space is only about 1.3 metres long, if I remember right.

    The lady from Scotrail said that the put-your-bike-in-the-vestibule option would remain, as long as you stayed with your bike.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  7. chdot
    Admin

    "the put-your-bike-in-the-vestibule option would remain, as long as you stayed with your bike."

    That would be good to get in writing...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  8. barnton-to-town
    Member

    Virgin highland chieftain service last night (edin - inverness) was a guards van type affair with space for 3 bikes. I had a reservation as did another chap but the guard had no record of his reservation and was reluctant to let him travel, despite having no further reservations up to inverness.
    Same guard on a return train this morning that we'd last minute tried to travel on because of the weather. Wouldn't let 3 of us on because we didn't have reservations "and anyway, the van is beyond the platform".
    I checked the Internet, and apparently when the train is too long, you can put your bike on elsewhere until it's safe to move it at a later station.
    So, if it's ok to temporarily store the bike in another space, why not for the whole journey (albeit that wasn't a conundrum that bothered this guard)?
    The station manager predicted this would happen (no cycle reservation, no cycle travel); apparently all virgin train staff are grumpy bar stewards, an opinion I wholeheartedly share after a journey last year on the east coast main line.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  9. gembo
    Member

    Had a couple of very jolly guards on way down to London and back at start of Feb not trying to take a bike on.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  10. wee folding bike
    Member

    I took a bike off a guard's van in Ayr marshalling yard once.

    Of course that was 1987. Things might have changed.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  11. jdanielp
    Member

    Hmm, I was strangely optimistic yesterday. Reading Arellcat's post again today makes clear sense that it is only two per train which doesn't sound like a sensible move.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  12. steveo
    Member

    I presume these are for the shuttle service and the existing trains on the Milngavie route will remain?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  13. crowriver
    Member

    @steveo, yes I presume that's the case. So cyclists with bikes may be better advised to travel west via Bathgate...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  14. kaputnik
    Moderator

    For regular EDB-GLQ commuters, it's worth noting that the new Hitachi units will not arrive until at least mid-2017, but electrification will be complete before then, c. end-2016.

    Scotrail are planning to cascade Class 380 units from some of the West of Scotland / Inverclyde / Ayrshire routes to provide electric trains until the Hitachis arrive. For those not conversant in the multiple unit class system, Class 380 = the ones wot do the North Berwick run.

    Also, the new, lengthened platforms at Queen Street aren't scheduled to be ready until 2018, so you won't be seeing the 8 car trains until then.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  15. LaidBack
    Member

    @ barnton-to-town Sad to hear that your experience is identical / traditional on these HST units. I remember tackling the attitude of inflexible guards when GNER ran these services. Around 1998.
    When the Turbostar units came on it was actually easier as spaces could be a accessed without unlocking. Cyclists negotiating skills could then be focused on getting luggage moved but guard had witnesses if they tried to be unhelpful.
    Last summer I found Scotrail guards to be good - except on West Highland. Hopefully management of Abllio's HST units will be more bike friendly!

    Posted 8 years ago #

  16. kaputnik
    Moderator

    When they change the franchises, the staff on the trains by and large stays the same (particularly the "professional" ranks like drivers and guards). So your typical grumpy GNER guard will have been a typical grumpy National Express guard, a typical grumpy East Coast guard and is now your typical grumpy Virgin guard. If none of the franchises have brought in a new corporate ethos of being polite and helpful, then ingrained culture isn't going to change.

    That said, most guards I've had too/from London have always been pleasant and helpful, you just get the odd bad apple. And this is confounded by the tight and awkward bike storage on the HST sets.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  17. chdot
    Admin

    "most guards I've had too/from London have always been pleasant and helpful"

    Agreed.

    Last time I went to London I forgot to put the ticket on my bike.

    While still at Waverley the guard (or whatever they are called these days) came looking for me, not with any degree of malice or hostility. He was just making sure I had a booking (fair enough) and checking where I was getting off.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  18. Arellcat
    Moderator

    to/from London…tight and awkward bike storage on the HST sets

    To the extent that I can decide which train to catch down south (typically either York or London) I always look it up on RealTimeTrains to see whether it's pathed as an HST, 220/221, or an electric train.

    If I'm off to York, I will probably be taking my touring recumbent, which doesn't like HSTs (and doesn't really like XC Voyagers either).

    If I'm off to London, I will probably have my Brompton, which I can put anywhere, but I find the HST seats more comfortable and Mk3 coach ride quality is better.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  19. chdot
    Admin

    "to see whether it's pathed as an HST or an electric train"

    Apart from knowing that trains from Aberdeen are diesel, what are the indicators??

    Posted 8 years ago #

  20. Arellcat
    Moderator

    RTT will say, for example:

    'Pathed as 220/221 (Voyager)' for XC Aberdeen to Penzance
    'Pathed as 220/221 (Voyager)' for XC Glasgow to Bristol
    'High Speed Train (HST125)' for XC Dundee to Plymouth
    'High Speed Train (HST125)' for VT Aberdeen to London
    'High Speed Train (HST125)' for VT Inverness to London
    'High Speed Train (HST125)' for VT Edinburgh to London
    'Electric locomotive, trailing load 410 tonnes' for VT Edinburgh to London

    Posted 8 years ago #

  21. chdot
    Admin

    Ah, ta!

    Posted 8 years ago #

  22. dougal
    Member

    Is there somewhere with a conversion table from "carriage type" to "picture of bike rack" because even though I get a train daily I have no memory for these things.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  23. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Found a copy of the layouts for the new trains, by way of the RailUK forum.

    https://chicgibson.wordpress.com/2015/07/28/a-standard-scottish-emu/

    Bikes go in the carriage marked 'DMS1'.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  24. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Nice find, Arellcat.

    I would observe that the new trains have nearly 100 more seats than existing Edinburgh-Glasgow Turbostars, but no new toilets.

    That will make the Friday night 11:30PM "time, gentlemen please" express back from nights out additionally fun.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  25. Arellcat
    Moderator

    It occurs to me now that those schematics, and indeed Chic's blog post, are from a year ago, nearly. I have a feeling (correct or otherwise) that the Scotrail schematics in the drop-in sessions had the train layout reversed, with the bike area to the top-left.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  26. cb
    Member

    "That will make the Friday night 11:30PM "time, gentlemen please" express back from nights out additionally fun."

    Only if more seats translates to more drunken revellers (which I suppose it could, although maybe not 100 more?)

    I assume the current 'last train' doesn't often or ever get too full to take passengers?

    (In fact, does that ever happen (in Scotland)).

    Posted 8 years ago #

  27. chdot
    Admin

    "I assume the current 'last train' doesn't often or ever get too full to take passengers?"

    Depends on football matches, concerts etc.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  28. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    According to a friend who used to be a Scotrail driver (as well as helicopter pilot and sous chef...) when he did the Edinburgh - Glasgow route they would frequently be told to skip stations when they got full.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  29. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Depends on football matches, concerts etc.

    Nah, it depends how good your night out is going. If it's good, you say "Sod it, we'll get the 3AM Citylink bus.

    If it's REALLY good, you say "Sod it, we'll get the first train home in the morning".

    Posted 8 years ago #

  30. cb
    Member

    To make it a really good night out you should aim for the 2nd last train home.

    Nice and quiet and still time for a cocoa before bed.

    Posted 8 years ago #

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