For about 30+years the standard wheel size for the mountain bike was 26 inch and it seemed to work very well with tyres being available in most parts of the world (great for those on tour in exotic locations)
Call me cycnical but it it just one massive marketing ploy by manufacturers to sell more bikes while people including myself have stocks of 26 inch tyres and tubes in thier garages/sheds which will be obsolete before long? I know many will go on about wheels rolling better etc etc when larger diameter but how come it has taken 30+ years for this to come to light?? My 26 inch knobblies and metal-studded tyres remain in the garage and the new ATB I was thinking of getting will no longer be able to use these.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
The demise of the ATB 26 inch wheel size
(25 posts)-
Posted 8 years ago #
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"new ATB I was thinking of getting"
650B (marketing 27 1/2) or 700C (marketing 29)?
As you'll know 26 (not the same as the UK 26s!) was the 'random' result of certain Californians repurposing 'junk' bikes for racing down fireroads.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Call me cycnical but it it just one massive marketing ploy by manufacturers to sell more bikes
...yes
I could say more...
Posted 8 years ago # -
Well, 20 years ago we didn't even have tyres with Kevlar under the tread. I remember the Faeries having a field day seemingly every time I rode down (or up) Donkey Lane.
I think Nokian was early with knobblies in 700c (and spikes, too, with the Hakkapeliitta tyre).
When I was halfway along the Erie Canal several years ago my back tyre exploded, and I tried to buy a replacement in the local Wal-Mart. 26 x something-or-other sounded alright to me at the time, but it turned out (as any fule kno) to be ISO590, not ISO559, and was of course completely useless to me.
I suspect that all it took was an outfit like Specialized's skunkworks to build a frame designed for a pair of 700c knobblies that they found on the internet. "Hey man, this bike is cool, we should build these!" And before you know it, 29 is the new 26, and inevitably marketed to kingdom come because now your competitor has got a new product that you don't. "Oh, but 29ers look…kinda dorky, we should make something in between."
Posted 8 years ago # -
650B of course the classic rim and tyre size for French touring randonneur bicycles. Something of a comeback recently in these types of cycles with their front forks designed to be more stable with a bar bag mounted on a decaleur.
Knobbly MTB 650B tyres not much use to a randonneur, but the revival of interest amongst manufacturers may help sustain commuting and touring tyres in this size too.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@crowriver
I didn't know that! Happy google imaging there for some very elegant moustache-barred rigs.
I do despise enforced obsolescence.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I suppose the counter argument is that if things are to move forward then older kit must eventually be rendered obsolete.
If you accept the argument that 29ers are better which for some stuff they probably are then the new standard should move on. It's not like wheel size changes every year. There is 30 years of momentum ensuring 26" kit will be around for a while.
Not sure that stands up for the 650 size which is near as dammit the same as 26".
Posted 8 years ago # -
Disc brakes are rendering rim brakes obsolete.
1 1/8" aheadsets are rendering 1" threaded obsolete.
27.2mm seatposts are rendering other sizes obsolete.
11 speed is rendered 6,7,8,9 and 10 speed obsolete.
The thing is, things change, sometimes for the better, sometimes not, and 'generally' the old stuff can still be sourced (sometimes very easily) and purchased.
I suspect 26" will be around forever. As was also pointed out 650B has a long history, and people probably thought it was dead, but it's now back with a vengeance.
I think arellcat is, as is often the case, spot on. Probably a lucky accident that has created the 29er craze, which then gets marketed to hell and back. People like new things. People buy that new thing in preference to the old. Manufacturers make more money for a while off the new thing. But it'll settle down.
Cycling has never been about any particular all-encompassing standards (annoyingly). Different bottom bracket threads and sizes; different headset sizes; different versions of 26" tyres (and tires); different chain widths and pitches....
A broad church, which I'm sure the 26" tyre will retain a pew in. Not obsolete, never will be, just not to the fore anymore.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I built my latest bike up as 650B out of curiosity. It's a 700C frame but disc braked.
With the fatter tyres, the diameter of the 650B wheelset is almost identical to 700C with narrower rubber. I guess this means the bike handles as intended. Swapping onto a 700x28mm bike and I really notice the harshness of the ride (!).
However, ironically the fork and stays are flared to maximise tyre clearance for a 700C rim (there's less clearance for fat 650B tyres than there would be for the same width tyres in 700C). I've rubbed the paint off the chainstay already - oops.
You can't get Marathon Winter in 650B yet which is a major weakness for us (or I'd convert SWMBO's bike to 650B).
I don't really mind that companies produce new stuff and market it. At the end of the day, old standards only become obsolete when the mass of consumers aren't interested any more (otherwise there would be money on the table for competing companies to continue making it).
Posted 8 years ago # -
"650B of course the classic rim and tyre size for French touring randonneur bicycles."
That is part of the truth.
650B was the standard French size for its utility bikes too at a time when the UK 'standard' was 26x1 3/8" (650A!)
French bikes (other than 'racers') generally had fatter tyres - one factor that led to the popularity of 'mountain' bikes as the 'new normal'.
French 'racing' bikes were generally 700c at time when the UK favoured 27x1 1/4" - they also commonly had 32/40 spokes (front/rear). 27" has become obsolete and the 'continental' norm of 36/36 prevailed (though now almost anything is possible!)
650B became a niche touring interest in the US which resulted in new tyres, rims and porteur racks.
Not surprisingly, Sheldon took an interest in all this -
"
The 650B size was never common in the U.S., and it went into decline even in France with the advent of the mountain bike.
However, there is a dedicated group of fans of this wheel size, who have been diligently working to restore it to its former glory. The situation as far as tire and rim availability has lately taken a turn for the better, and the future looks rosy for 650B.
"
Posted 8 years ago # -
I never saw any problem with the 26 inch size for ATBs, in fact they do have the advantage of making storage and transportation that bit easier, particularly those who want to take the bike by air or in a bag on French TGVs for example.While I accecept that things naturally progress (how many regular cyclists use toe clips and straps for example?, non free-hub rear wheels etc etc), but the giant size wheels for no good reason just seems like an extra money spinning idea by the industry. Checking local bike shops and online the long established 26 inch size wheel bikes seems to be confined to the cheap end of the market. (Anybody want to buy some hardly-used 26 inch knobblies and metal studded ones?)
Posted 8 years ago # -
"27.2mm seatposts are rendering other sizes obsolete."
Really?
Always was a pain that there were so many sizes.
27.2 is of course the normal size for bikes with 531 tubing!
One real disaster area - which SHOULD have a common standard - is rear mech hangers (the 'simple' bit of metal that means frames are less likely to be damaged if you fall).
Bike shops have posters of all(?) the variations!
Posted 8 years ago # -
Was just really an example to highlight that there are lots of different standards, and one coming to prominence doesn't mean others die out.
I'd say there is good reason for the 29er - certainly riders I speak to find them much better off-road. 650B I couldn't say - never ridden one, and not had conversations with anyone about them.
I do suspect you'll be able to get 26" frames and forks and wheels for quite some time to come to maintain their convenience, and probably not just limited to the cheap end of the market. I know a lot of the big name manufacturers are moving away from it, but there's a lot of smaller companies, and getting wheels in parts and building up/having built up keeps loads of flexibility about wheel sizes.
I'd definitely say the grand majority of bikes I see on my commute are either 700 or 26", gonna take a while to kill off.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"how many regular cyclists use toe clips and straps for example?, non free-hub rear wheels etc etc"
Most of my road/touring bikes have toe clips and straps. I like them, you can move your feet around, maybe preventing some of the knee problems associated with poorly adjusted clipless pedals.
Run a couple of bikes with screw-on freewheels too. Also some with hub gears...
Posted 8 years ago # -
"11 speed is rendered 6,7,8,9 and 10 speed obsolete."
Particularly annoying for me. Durability seems to be inversely proportional to number of rear sprockets (and thus narrowness of sprockets. chain, etc.)
Six speed sprockets and chains just last for ages. Likewise 8 speed seems more durable than 9, 10, 11 speed. I suppose the manufacturers don't make enough cash from parts that last a long time, but unless you are racing the performance gains from more gears are probably offset by increased reliability for the majority of cyclists.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Not sure if bicycles are the best example for forced obsolescence. Recently when I visited home, an oddly shaped bolt on the brake of my 30 year old bike broke off.
So my mum took the bits to the nearest bike shop when she cycled off to get some groceries. The guy in the shop said he hadn't seen this kind of brake for many years, but after rummaging around in various old boxes he found a fitting part.
I'm not sure what would happen if I went with a part from a 30 year old mobile phone to a phone shop. Or even just try to get a new battery for a 10 year old phone.
Part of what makes the bicycle so attractive is that most of the technology is fairly basic mechanics. Although there are so many different standards, each standard is still so common that there is a good chance to find parts.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Ha. Try getting a 30 year old mobile phone to actually work! Just about doable with a 30 year old computer, though again spares likely to be problematic. Still quite a few 30 year old televisions sucking up massive amounts of electricity probably...
Even most recent bikes generally far easier to repair yourself than modern cars. If roadies/MTBers start adopting electronic shifters en masse, that might change...
Posted 8 years ago # -
Still quite a few 30 year old televisions sucking up massive amounts of electricity probably..
At the rate I see boxes for giant 60"+ flatscreen tellies discarded all over the place, I'd be amazed there there are any left under 5 years old!
Posted 8 years ago # -
It's true that now LED TVs are so cheap relatively speaking, lots of people are 'trading up', but I reckon there's still a fair whack of CRT TVs out there...
Posted 8 years ago # -
"
Many cyclists are under the impression that if you pay thousands of dollars for a bike, it will last for more than a few years, and it should — but not without a little TLC (tender loving care). It’s a given that you’ll be replacing consumable items like chains, cassettes, seats, brake pads, and cables, but other things like the frame for example, should last a lifetime if long term bike maintenance is observed.
"
http://www.ilovebicycling.com/long-term-bike-maintenance-make-your-bike-last-forever/
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Seats" are a consumable item? What's the guy doing to them!
Posted 8 years ago # -
"What's the guy doing to them!"
Leaning against too many walls?
Falling off too often??
Posted 8 years ago # -
'"Seats" are a consumable item? What's the guy doing to them!'"
I dumped one (eBay-sourced) saddle three years ago as it had a pronounced lean to the right which was making me sit funnily; attempts to bend the rail back didn't work. The heavily-discounted bargain replacement lasted less than a year after the covering was rubbed away both sides of the nose, revealing spiky bits which started attacking my shorts.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I've got one with rusting saddle rails. It still seems fine but if I could be bothered I'd probably replace it.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Tbf, the 26" wheel had a decent innings. 29ers have only recently established primacy among pro MTBers yet they've already been deprecated:
http://www.naden.de/blog/bbvideo-bbpress-video-plugin -->
[+] Embed the video | see here" target="_blank">Video Download Get the Video Player Posted 8 years ago #
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