CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Repainted bike lanes Gilmerton Rd

(28 posts)
  • Started 8 years ago by Stephan Matthiesen
  • Latest reply from amir

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  1. About a week ago the bike lanes in Gilmerton Rd were repainted with shiny bright white lines, and I wonder what other people think.

    My impression is that the repainting makes an already bad situation worse, more unpleasant and dangerous.

    This goes beyond the general issue that painted lanes are not optimal. The specific problem in Gilmerton Rd is that the road surface is really bad along long stretches and deeply cratered especially in the area of these bike lanes (top layer of the tarmac coming off in patches, sunken drains, long cracks etc). Normally I have to cycle at least on the line, often further out, just to avoid deep road defects that would throw me off. It's not a matter of a few potholes here and there but of long sections just worn down.

    The problem with the re-paint: Until now, the markings were so faint that they were hardly visible so that they were universally ignored by cyclists and drivers (i.e. most drivers normally didn't seem to notice when I cycled much more centrally).

    Now they are bright and visible and within a few days I already had drivers signalling me I should be in there, as they don't realise how bad it is. Less assertive cyclists might be tempted to hopple over the craters. The bright visible lines have considerable psychological impact and encourage too close overtaking, as they signal to drivers where "cyclists should be".

    The lanes may just be ok if the surface was smoother, but apparently there are no plans to resurface Gilmerton Rd (except a bit around Ellen's Glen).

    I appreciate that the road teams had the best intentions and perhaps had to refresh the paint as the lanes were already there, but in my opinion it was better when they were not visible and I would have preferred to remove them completely if the lanes can't be resurfaced and designed properly.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  2. MediumDave
    Member

    I've not been near those specific lanes recently but agree with the general point: badly designed infrastructure is far worse than useless. Its intrinsic uselessness is the lesser problem; the tendency of self-righteous motorists to enforce their warped interpretation of the Rules is much more of an issue.

    My submission to the KB/Marchmont consultation made this point heavily.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. Pictures taken on my way home.

    See the sunken drain, the holes and the puddles near the kerb hiding more craters?

    Shiny new paint encourages overtaking at pinch point. You see how the motor lane is just wide enough for a small car - speed there is normally above 30mph,

    Posted 8 years ago #
  4. Most parts of Gilmerton Rd with the painted bike lanes are actually enormously wide, often with hatching in centre and traffic islands.

    At least they could have repainted the lanes much wider, not just refreshed the old narrow lanes.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  5. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Stephan,

    Indeed, I'd have been happy to see these lines fade into obscurity. Corraling cyclists onto the worst tarmac is not helpful. Neither is wasting money that could go into road repairs or segregated facilities.

    Does anyone know who asked for these dotted line lanes in the first place? It couldn't have been cyclists surely?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  6. "Does anyone know who asked for these dotted line lanes" I just hope it wasn't me... I have been nagging South Team for ages on Twitter about how bad Gilmerton Rd is for cycling with all the road defects. Perhaps somebody felt the need to "do something"...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  7. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Stephan,

    Sorry, I meant originally as in back in the nineties or whenever they first sprouted. Like ASZs, I've always thought they were the automobilists' fantasy of what a bicyclist might want.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  8. neddie
    Member

    Probably CEC using up wasting the end of year remaining budget.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  9. bruce_mcadam
    Member

    The issue I have with Gilmerton road is that for much of its length there is a hatched reservation (and islands) down the middle.

    Essentially more space is allocated to be kept empty to protect motorists from each other, than is allocated at the sides to protect cyclists and pedestrians from motorists.

    (I'd like to see mandatory lanes and removal of the hatched area to allow for this.)

    Posted 8 years ago #
  10. crowriver
    Member

    "Essentially more space is allocated to be kept empty to protect allow motorists from each other to drive faster than is safe in a built up area, than is allocated at the sides to protect cyclists and pedestrians from motorists."

    FTFY

    Posted 8 years ago #
  11. amir
    Member

    I generally ignore the lanes. They are too narrow especially given the frankly shameful road surface. And going downhill it's pretty difficult anyway.

    The road needs to look more dangerous for cars as well - those travelling at 30 mph or lower are not infrequently overtaken.

    A lot (but not all) the surface imperfections are caused by buses, right in the area where cyclists travel. The council should be recognising the issues and routinely checking the places where this occurs - current repairs don't last long.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  12. @amir "I generally ignore the lanes" me too and I think everybody should, but the issue is that now they shine so brightly that drivers don't ignore them any more. Fine if you're fast and assertive but if you're a bit slower you get bullied. And some cyclists may feel compelled to stay in them and not "encroach" onto car space.

    Does anybody find them helpful?

    If they are useless and should be ignored, why was money spend on repainting them and not on fixing the road defects or something else useful?

    @iwrats Ah, in the 1990s it definitely wasn't me... Yes, they do look like drivers' fantasies - perhaps about what cyclists want, but perhaps just to ban them to the gutters out of the way? But the nineties is long ago, what I'm really more angry about is that money and time is spent now and the opportunity not used to improve them.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  13. Luath
    Member

    The only situation where I can see that dotted cycle lane lines might help cyclists is where they mark a lane about 2 metres wide.
    Otherwise they're just a tool for the "in the gutter, scum" brigade to bash cyclists.
    Do bodies like spokes have an official position on the use of these markings?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  14. mgj
    Member

    Just back from London where the two things I noticed most were that the road surfaces were dramatically better than in Edinburgh, and the volume of cyclists therefore capable of using road bikes at high speed up the inside of fast moving vehicles, sometimes on cycle lanes and sometimes not. On the one hand it looked terrifying, but the cyclists were able to concentrate on the traffic and not on avoiding potholes, so maybe I'd get used to it.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  15. @Luath There is one situation in Gilmerton Rd when I do find them somewhat useful, and that's when traffic is stationary, as drivers tend to stay out and you can pass them (slowly bumping through the potholes...). On roads without markings, some drive close to the kerb and others close to the central line, blocking the full width.

    Gilmerton Rd is often jammed all the way back to St John Vianney. Right at Liberton Primary the bike lane is then full of parked cars and and I have to negotiate with impatient/sleepy drivers, but at least most of the bike lane between the schools is usually free as there aren't any houses or shops.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  16. jonty
    Member

    Yeah, the only real use for painted lanes I've been able to discern is for encouraging cars to leave space for filtering. They work quite well for that if there's nobody parked in them.

    A painted lane I'd be "happy" with would have chevrons for the first ~0.5m from the kerb, followed by 1.5m-2m of (smooth!) lane and at least another 0.5m buffer from traffic. I think the only place in Edinburgh that even comes close to this is the bottom of Leith Walk, but other design aspects ruin it.

    By that point, you may as well install hard segregation. But as a cheap minimum standard for when hard seg hasn't been designed yet, it could be okay. Where there's no existing space to upgrade a substandard lane which is still useful for filtering, the lane should be replaced by ~1m wide chevrons, surrounded by a dotted line, clearly indicating that cyclists shouldn't be in there normally but are allowed to filter up it should they wish.

    One day...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  17. Frenchy
    Member

    IMG_20180116_141757

    New bike lane on Gilmerton Road!

    Posted 6 years ago #
  18. HankChief
    Member

    Wow! Mind if I tweet it?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  19. Frenchy
    Member

    Sure.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  20. glasgow megasnake
    Member

    with the budget hit so hard the council has been forced to pay for and deliver its infrastructure in instalments. You too could get your own bike lane, available with just 500 weekly payments of £5.

    Special offers are also available on roundabouts (1/16 portions) and lampposts (available in easily assembled 1/4 high segments).

    Posted 6 years ago #
  21. HankChief
    Member

    Thank you. We shouldn't mock too much as they have at least done their job right, just a shame that the original is so faded (and not that great to start with).

    H

    Posted 6 years ago #
  22. Frenchy
    Member

    I'm mostly surprised that section of road wasn't parked on long enough for it to be dug up.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  23. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @Frenchy

    It's a miracle. Could become a place of pilgrimage?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  24. Frenchy
    Member

    I saw a discussion somewhere recently (probably a thread on here, but I can't find it now) about what the point of the cycle lanes on Gilmerton Road is. I'd been told by a council officer that the main reason for them was to narrow the carriageway and slow down drivers. So I tried FOIing the council to see why they were put in in the first place.

    "The cycle lanes on Gilmerton Road have been in place for many years. We hold no records of the anticipated benefits when these lanes were installed."

    Posted 5 years ago #
  25. EdinburghCycleCam
    Member

    Oh wonderful.

    Gilmerton road is where I've had almost all of my close passes because I outright refuse to use the cycle lanes because they're absolutely abysmal.

    And yeah, I saw the same reason somewhere (Twitter maybe).

    Posted 5 years ago #
  26. Frenchy
    Member

    And yeah, I saw the same reason somewhere (Twitter maybe).

    Quite possibly me there too.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  27. Roibeard
    Member

    I've taught the children that these dashed lines on Gilmerton Road demonstrate the minimum (secondary position) distance their wheels should be from the kerb...

    Robert

    Posted 5 years ago #
  28. amir
    Member

    I thought the white lines indicated where most of the potholes are (and that's saying a lot on Gilmerton Road)

    Posted 5 years ago #

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