http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-36014525
This would kill the event. Hopefully the council sees sense and other councils don't get any ideas.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Leisure
"Bristol ParkRun joggers face being charged to use paths"
(109 posts)-
Posted 8 years ago #
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Have to say, as a committee member for a park where a ParkRun takes place, the organisation can, at times, be rather difficult to deal with. Someone else seems to be at the helm now, who is much more open to us being able to ask people if they want to take part in our regular clean-ups and so on.
We've had a few complaints from other park users about a few inconsiderate runners (the paths are narrow and 9.30am is prime 'out to walk the dog after breakfast' time), but thankfully seems a very small minority.
Slightly concerned about the sheer number of runners with it approaching breeding season and the path being very close to the areas with birds, but it's more a watching brief.
Charging (to go back to the OP) would be a bit daft, in my opinion, unless the number of runners was causing damage to verges or whatever. We did ask once if they would mind us shaking a tin a couple of times a year to help with funds for upkeep, but were met with a very stern "WE. ARE. PARKRUN." wall. Again, new folk seem more amenable.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I've been along a couple of times to watch my daughter "race" in the Figgate Park Run (funny how I scoff at anyone saying I'm racing on my bike when I'm just doing an Audax yet I do the same as soon as she turns up for any kind of running event). I didn't realise the organisers got the use of the park for nothing.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Yep. It's a brilliant business model. Virtually zero overheads - they get a lot of sponsorship from what I gather.
Interestingly they get that for nothing - we had to get special dispensation from the Council (I put my lawyer's hat on) to get permission to use photos in a calendar to raise funds for... the park. Also had to get dispensation to allow us to set up a YouTube account that is monetised (again to raise funds for the park), and we're not allowed to launch a drone in the park for an interesting film (planning on getting round that by getting someone to launch one from 'outside').
Posted 8 years ago # -
@WC: I was in Figgate Park just before a parkrun. I found it unpleasant - we had gone to have a quiet walk with the ducks ("Walking With Ducks" - coming soon to a TV near you) but hastily left the park seconds before the start to avoid being mown down by the runners. As you say the paths there are narrow in places. Can't argue with encouraging exercise mind you, given its many benefits.
By the way if you want to avoid damage to the verges you might have a word with whoever does the maintenance there - I've seen them a few times drive a rather wide van along very narrow paths, and whenever they meet an obstacle such as a human being, they drive off onto the grass, which on a wet day destroys it and leaves deep muddy tracks. It looked to me as if a cargo bike, or a bike with a trailer, would carry the tools required and make a lot less damage.
On the wider parkrun issue - it seems on the face of it that a company is freeloading off a publically maintained park, but I see that parkrun is a non-profit company and says it uses all its money to support the running. Maybe there's room for compromise? For instance that parkrun pays a deposit to cover damage to verges, then gets it back afterwards if there wasn't any? It doesn't seem to be short of cash.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I haven't done the Edinburgh parkrun for about 6 years. When I last did it there were around 100 people turning up each week and maybe 30 or 40 events across the country. Now it looks like there are several hundred each week.
Perhaps it's grown beyond the founders intentions and is a victim of its own success?
Posted 8 years ago # -
I think parkrun is great.
It's a not for profit organisation that gets a lot of people running. Really a lot of people, the two parkruns in Edinburgh and Portobello got over 750 runners between them last week on a cold and overcast Saturday morning. And what is best is that parkrun isn't full of sporty people, there are routinely people finishing the 5k in over fifty minutes - I suspect most people on this forum could walk 5k in that time - and the average time of 27 minutes is not particularly fast. Parkrun is extremely effective at getting people who don't routinely exercise excited about going out for a jog on Saturday morning.
There are issues about where it should be sited, clearly having one around the meadows would be inappropriate as it would totally dominate and interrupt other activity, and there's a lot of other activity going on.
Figgate park isn't ideal, the paths are narrow. But at the cost of dominating the park for an hour on Saturday morning it provides a great service to 250 people, I suspect this is a significant proportion of the total park users on a normal Saturday.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Cheers for the feedback cc - we've actually got our next committee meeting for the park tomorrow, and ParkRun always comes up.
Regarding the council vehicles, yes, it's a bit of a bugbear, and could definitely be done in better ways, but they'll simply state they don't have the vehicles available (and aren't going to invest in them). I think I might take that as something of a cause and see if I can get some other Friends groups interested (we're definitely able to effect some changes, but often things happen or are changed in the park that we had no idea about - mainly trees being cut down).
But we've planted a few hundred saplings; had the Mountcastle underpass brightened with murals; got our new bird feeding station and seating from the train folk (with some more planned); created a butterfly border; created a new 'bug hotel' with four disused trolleys; created a number of willow structures; secured some bat boxes etc etc.
And we've plans for 'fairy doors' in some trees for a younger kids trail, better info on the wildlife, possibly having a 'wild' nature trail in a disused part, a small skatepark by a playpark (and beside the train depot).... All through a little bit of budget granted by the council, but mostly the hard work of a couple of people on the committee finding external funding for things.
Getting some great support from the ATC now, we're using their hut tonight, and they've supplied youngsters to help with clean-ups.
I can't recommend getting involved in your local parks highly enough to be honest.
Where was I? Oh yes, ParkRun, definitely a victim of its own success. I 'think' there are about 120 runners each week in the Figgate. Might be a little more. Certainly once it has been going for ten minutes or so it seems an almost continuous line of folk (they've got to do two laps I think to make up the distance).
Posted 8 years ago # -
Hadn't realised it was as much as 250!
"I suspect this is a significant proportion of the total park users on a normal Saturday."
You'd be surprised. Even at 7am, when I'm wandering round with a camera looking at the wildlife, there are a good 20 odd people in the park in sight. It's very well used indeed. At the time the ParkRun is on you're probably looking at 50 odd others. I would have said in the recent past that it's not fair on those 50 local users to have their use of the park disrupted by people who drive in and drive out (as a large proportion do), but recently more have been staying and enjoying the park, using a nearby café, or heading down to the cafes in Porty, so it's definitely increasing the appreciation of the area (I got chatting one Sunday recently to a chap out looking for birds who had only learned of the park through the ParkRun).
Posted 8 years ago # -
I'm a park run convert too (and delighted with a 27 minute PB). I was dragged to many things called 'fun runs' as a child and they were anything but. Parkrun really is friendly and inclusive. i was amazed the first few times i went.
I can also see the issue re people and numbers, but it is over quite fast? (maybe less so if they do two laps). At Cramond, there is about a 10 minute window when the path is chockablock with runners, but after/before that it's pretty sedate. Runners are always reminded that other people are using the paths. I can see that at Figgate this could be a bigger issue, but would hope something could be worked out.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Cheers WC, I wondered what the disused trolleys were doing! The park volunteers make a big and visible difference to the park. I can only salute everyone's enthusiasm and dedication - park volunteers and runners alike.
Re the sudden cutting down of trees - we got talking to a guy in the park who said that some of it had been down to the owners of a nearby house having wielded some political influence to get inconvenient trees chopped down. The tale went on to cover council corruption and to refer to council staff who had been forcibly retired in recent years!
Posted 8 years ago # -
@WC - didn't know about the friends of figgate park, just found your homepage and it looks great, thanks for all your hard work. Incidentally, is cycling allowed in the park? Cyclestreets says yes, but I haven't seen any signs either way and I always feel like I shouldn't be. There are a lot of people who drive to parkrun, but it's probably less than half, I'd guess that most people jog there. Aspa and I always go to the cafe afterwards, the cafe is usually overflowing with people wanting bacon rolls after their run.
@SRD +1 for Parkrun being fantastically inclusive. And in case my earlier comment about the average time was misunderstood, I meant only to say that it shows that parkrun isn't stuffed full of fitness obsessives!
Portyparkrun is three laps and does dominate the certain sections of the park for half an hour. It's also probably going to grow, it's only one year old and is already attracting 250. But it's a fantastic event, I can't see that there's another place in Portobello where it could take place, and I don't know of any other event that encourages so many 'ordinary' people to get fitter.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Ah now that's interesting and intriguing, given when we were planting saplings someone in a nearby-ish house came out and complained she'd been told there would not be more trees planted. She's apparently a former councillor and there are certainly trees near her house that have been dramatically shorn...
It's like House of Cards....
Posted 8 years ago # -
"just found your homepage and it looks great"
If that's the general website, that's my work that is... (though our Facebook page is much more active, and I run that with one of the other members; Twitter page is catching up, again that's my baby).
"Incidentally, is cycling allowed in the park?"
Absolutely. At some of the gates there are general 'park rule' type signs (though not at all) which include cycling. Definitely no problem (and actually I've never heard a single complaint about cycling in the park!).
"I can't see that there's another place in Portobello where it could take place"
The only other place would be the prom. Wider, and could do an out and back behind Seafield which would be very similar to t'other ParkRun. But Porty Prom is an incredibly contentious issue. From dogs to cyclists there are almost daily complaints on the Porty People Facebook page.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I agree that parkrun should not be made to pay for any park it uses. However if an event isn't compatible or outgrows the park then nor should it have a right to continue using the park. I don't understand why the friends of a park should be barred from shaking a tin at an event, after all they themselves admit that other people are using the park at the same time as them, so if you can shake a tin at any other time presumably you can shake it then too.
The council could really do with purchasing a fleet of narrow wheelbase vehicles for path maintenance, bin emptying etc. The verges around East Craigs are normally a mess where vehicles have cut corners, swerved round lamp posts, used incorrect access points, etc.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I do like park run though I don't run myself (why do that when I have a bike). It reminds me of other enlightened places where people get out and about sans car on a Sunday (e.g Ottawa). Much better than all going down to Kinaird Park.
While my OH has been for art course in Dunfermline recently I've taken to starting rides from Pittencrieff park. At the same as I start there is a park-run and also other exercise activities going on - great to see. When I get back, they've all gone to be replaced by parents with wee uns
Posted 8 years ago # -
"The council could really do with purchasing a fleet of narrow wheelbase vehicles for path maintenance, bin emptying etc."
They use wee things like slightly heavy duty golf buggies around the Botanics. If it was absolutely necessary I expect they could be transported around between parks on the back of a flatbed truck, which could park outside the park or drop the miniature vehicle off if the batteries in the wee cart things were insufficient to get from council depot to park and back again.
Posted 8 years ago # -
The council could really do with purchasing a fleet of narrow wheelbase vehicles for path maintenance, bin emptying etc. The verges around East Craigs are normally a mess where vehicles have cut corners, swerved round lamp posts, used incorrect access points, etc.
Said it before: the Council really should lead by example and purchase a fleet of cargo bikes for park (and other) maintenance. Cleaner, cheaper, less disruption, more in keeping with the environment they are operating in, safer, fitter council staff, more council staff that understand cycling and what the Council is trying to achieve, etc.
Posted 8 years ago # -
ParkRun would find it hard to outgrow Holyrood -
"
Summer
From late March/early April until end of September all roads, except the High Road (where possible) and access to the car parks, will be closed from 8.30am to 6pm every Sunday.Winter
From October until late March/early April all roads, except the High Road (where possible) and access to the car parks, will be closed from 8.30am to 4pm every Sunday."
Maybe they've already asked...
Posted 8 years ago # -
Parkrun is on a Saturday....?
I guess the fact that Holyrood Park belongs to HMtheQ would be an issue.Posted 8 years ago # -
Stoke Gifford Parish Council has, it appears, voted to start charging ParkRun for park use, makes for interesting reading.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"makes for interesting reading"
Indeed -
"
To conclude, Parkrun maintain it is their ethos to remain ‘free of charge’ and have repeatedly stated they will not pay towards the upkeep even when the council offered to complete a grant application on their behalf and all that was required was their signature. The Parish Council cannot & will not stop people from using the parks for exercise & running but when it comes to an organisation with paid directors, fund raisers and sponsors it would be unfair to expect the resident’s to pay.
"
Posted 8 years ago # -
What are residents paying for? I don't believe a Parkrun will do so much damage that it takes up much of the budget. (Not a runner meslf..It's me calves :-()
Posted 8 years ago # -
"What are residents paying for?"
I think basically their council tax goes partly towards the parks, while they reckon a lot of people travelled to the park from outside. Local parks for local people? It's a genuinely difficult area, though causing £60k of damage to the path seems a little unlikely.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I wonder what the council would do if 200 people continued turning up on a Saturday morning and there was no one volunteering to marshal them.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Perhaps they should charge for car parking rather than use of the park?
Posted 8 years ago # -
Good point stickman. Though they have verge parking already so might get more to avoid charge so in fact they need to paint some yellow lines and enforce them with a warden for two hours of the park run? In various bits of England the parish council is responsible for things like parks and they do not always have resources
Park run clearly works in some parks and is the victim of its own success in parks that are not ideal. The one I have tried in Bedford has very wide paths, no car park but some people must drive and use side streets 2.5 times round. 8.30 to 10.30 max. Never any bother. I can imagine if 250 runners descended en masse to a small park this would be contentious. Park run themselves are talking about scrapping the event in this park. Do ark runners drive around to different parks to meet other park runners? There is some suggestion of this? But the concept used to be more like you turn up at your nearest park to minimise the travel and run in a less organised way the rest of the week? They are all still at the same time are they?
Posted 8 years ago # -
The running club I am a member of seems to have a thing of going to different Parkruns. I think this is a bit odd myself and don't see myself ever going anywhere other than Crammond (which I can get to by bike).
(Unless I do my sister's local Parkrun while visiting her - but that's slightly different!!)
Posted 8 years ago # -
Gyle Park has the same problem whenever there's kickball on. Cars parked on the pavement and verges despite the double yellow lines.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Gyle Park has the same problem whenever there's kickball on."
Bit like Inch Park when there's a cycle event on (though perhaps the cars can find enough road without yellow lines.)
Posted 8 years ago #
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