When people cycle two abreast on NEPN, we post anxious criticism in the huge "bad cycling" topic! ;-)
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!
"Vonny Moyes: Let's face it - cycling has an image problem"
(117 posts)-
Posted 8 years ago #
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" When people cycle two abreast aggressively and don't give way to vulnerable users or oncoming cyclists on the NEPN we post anxious criticism in the huge "bad cycling" topic!"
FTFY
Posted 8 years ago # -
I understand what you are saying, SRD, but that's the problem - there isn't really enough space on the NEPN to cycle two abreast in a relaxed fashion without singling out every time someone comes the other way or you want to pass someone. So your conversation is in fits and starts.
Posted 8 years ago # -
@fimm yes - all these paths need to be wider, but dave's comment wasn't about that.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I see there is reply in the letters page today.
RLJ, pavement cycling, no insurance, all the usual stuff.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I see there is reply in the letters page today.
Indeed, it doesn't matter which way your paper swings politically, you can be guaranteed to get the same ill-informed armchair transport strategists lifting their quill in apoplexy-induced riposte.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Let's face it, newspaper letter writers have an image problem. Until they reign in their obsession with red faced outrage, visibly pulsating veins, reliance on crude sterotypes and penchant for green ink then no-one will take them seriously.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Ummm… I've been known to write to letters pages.
Not in green ink and always pro cycling of course.
The last time I had one in the Herald a friend's dad read it and accused us of protecting our own.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Online here: http://www.thenational.scot/comment/letters-i-more-must-be-done-to-curb-selfish-cycling.16756
"Moreover I find the constant, and I do mean constant, law-breaking, selfish and extremely dangerous behaviour of the huge majority of cyclists to be utterly unacceptable. Not stopping at lights? No signals? No helmet or lights? No accountability or insurance? No problem! Have a high-speed trip down Buchanan Street pedestrian zone while you're at it."
Interesting how the picture shows a cyclist doing absolutely nothing wrong.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"Interesting how the picture shows a cyclist doing absolutely nothing wrong."
What? The loutish young man in question has no helmet, hi-via tabard, lights, and I bet he's not insured. Also he is CYCLING ON THE ROAD AND NOT IN THE GUTTER. How very dare he. Furthermore, the casually attired miscreant has not signalled his intention to carry on straight ahead. I mean really, how on earth are left turning motorists supposed to avoid cutting him up or hitting him if he won't act with due deference to his betters while they go about their lawful business? They're not mind readers you know! The impudence of these cyclists simply beggars belief!
Posted 8 years ago # -
fromtwitter "the cycling column I wrote that caused me more grief than anything I've ever written."
Posted 8 years ago # -
This morning I pulled up at the ASL on Torphichen Street behind another cyclist.
She was the epitome of what a proper cycling city should be. Wearing her normal work clothes, on a step-through bike (possibly a Pashley), looking utterly at ease.
I felt ridiculous behind her: hi-viz jacket, helmet, sporty sunglasses, drop-bar bike.
If someone had taken a photo at that point it would have perfectly captured Edinburgh cycling.
Then the lights changed, and I was back mixing with traffic. I was glad to be on a quick bike.
When the infrastructure is there I'll be happy to cycle every day on my slower upright bike. Until then it's only when I know exactly where I'm going and where the conflict is likely to arise that I'll take it out.
I guess I'm part of the problem?
Posted 8 years ago # -
"No reason why Edinburgh/Scottish cyclists should ape the dress sense of Dutch or Danish cyclists."
Don't know if anyone else bothered to stick at Dr Presenterer's Follow the Money in the BBC's Saturday-evening eurodrama slot? The first episode showed the Danish CEO bloke (played by the councillor who'd been secretly seeing the primary victim in series 1 of Forbrydelsen, unbeknownst to the council leader bloke who also played the bloke who died whilst ploughing a field in 1864) chuntering Danishly around presumably-it-was-actually-London-as-it-had-Londony-looking-buses in his suit without a hat, but riding a track-road/fashion-urban bike rather than an uprighty cobble-monster; the bike (or a similar style of thing) was later depicted resting in his office, but not being ridden again. He also didn't have any luggage as he was only going from a TV studio to an hotel. Later on there was a scene in what looked like a giant underground bicycle-park. Episode 1 of season 1 of Borgen had someone in full hat/anorak/drop-bars in the background outside the government building, in contrast to the hatless/upright utility stuff depicted in later episodes.
Posted 8 years ago # -
You forgot to add that the first murder of that drama was a hit-and-run by a driver against a cyclist!
Posted 8 years ago # -
I guess I'm part of the problem?
Oh yes. Absolutely.
Who is responsible for all road deaths/dangerous road use/abuse of the Highway Code/pollution/Donald Trump? Cyclists!
Who is responsible for low numbers of people cycling in this country? Cyclists!
Posted 8 years ago # -
What Min said.
Posted 8 years ago # -
(with, obviously I hope, the same degree of sarcasm)
Posted 8 years ago # -
"This morning I pulled up at the ASL on Torphichen Street behind another cyclist."
At least it wasn't me this time.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Re the tall upright bicycles. Do people in Denmark, Netherlands etc all have access to bike storage on the ground floor? 'Dutch' bikes don't appear to be the kind of bikes that I'd be happy carrying up 3 flights of stairs.
Posted 8 years ago # -
I think it's part of Dutch building regs that you have bike storage. They also seem to leave them locked up outside quite happily (and, I think, fish them in great numbers out of their canals)
Posted 8 years ago # -
At least it wasn't me this time.
I did look twice just to make sure.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Posted 8 years ago #
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@sallyhinch That sounds good. I was trying to decide in what circumstances I would have a bike like that and realised that in my current circumstances I am trying to focus on light bikes and it's because of how much carrying I do!
Posted 8 years ago # -
Apparently there has been a reaction to the piece but it's not clear who reacted.
http://www.thenational.scot/comment/vonny-moyes-fallout-over-column-is-getting-out-of-control.17299
Posted 8 years ago # -
It was a notorious troll on twitter, from what I understand.
TBH I don't think this is particularly about cycling but about being a troll, he just happens to troll on cycling subjects. Whenever I see him joining in a conversation, that's when I bow out. I hadn't realised he went quite so nuclear though
Posted 8 years ago # -
What that article describes sounds like pretty classic gendered trolling - it's really similar to multiple things I've read by women writing in other areas (tech, feminism, classics, etc.). Not that men don't get trolled, and perhaps cycling was a particular trigger, but this sort of campaign... yeah.
Posted 8 years ago # -
In debates on many fora there are some people who 'play the man/woman and not the ball' (to use a cliché).
I think it's pretty bad that people get personally abused* just because people don't agree with what they say or write. I'd like to think that the advocates of cycling here can handle points of view / ways of cycling that are different from their own.
*Of course I will make an exception for Donald Trump!
Posted 8 years ago # -
He's a well-known Twitter troll, but what makes this really weird is that he's actually a pro-cycling pro-infrastructure troll (yes, they exist...).
He attacks everybody who says anything that he thinks distracts cyclists from fighting for their rights.
I guess Vonny Moyes would have expected the typical EEN anti-cycling trolls, but not somebody who builds up a conspiracy theory that she's been paid by the global media (funded by arms dealers) to discredit cycle campaigning by focussing on "culture". And then goes on about it for weeks, collecting everything about her private life that he can find.
I'm not making this up...
I once got two days full of abuse just for tweeting something like "I just wish that helmet cam cyclists didn't swear quite so much" after a particularly foul-mouthed near-miss video went around. Admittedly my comment wasn't the most thoughtful, but apparently I'm now one of them who want to take away cyclists' right to be scared on the road, or something.
Posted 8 years ago # -
Stephan - good summary.
Have to say, I challenged her focus on culture, especially clothes (as you'll have seen in my blogpost) and she was pretty sharp in engaging with me too, so at first I wasn't surprised that this descended into a ding-dong. But he is seriously obsessive and creepy.
Cycling off today in clogs and a cardi, hair blowing in the wind, I did reflect that I need to get someone to take pictures of me in that mode, to use as 'evidence' when I'm attacked for attacking those who think that if we all dressed differently, everything would be fine.
Posted 8 years ago # -
"He's a well-known Twitter troll"
Seems to have gone way beyond that, must be something that can be done about such things.
Posted 8 years ago #
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