CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Lothian Road to Queensferry Street

(17 posts)
  • Started 9 years ago by edinburgh87
  • Latest reply from Fountainbridge

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  1. edinburgh87
    Member

    Just wondering - my commute takes me down Lothian Road, onto Queensferry Street and down the Dean Bridge. Now, there seem to be only two ways to do this:

    1) an illegal left onto Prince St and/or turn/cut across the pavement outside Kyloe

    2) follow the road all the way round via South Charlotte St and the south side of Charlotte Square and Ryan's Bar potentially getting caught at 2/3 sets of reds as a tram lumbers by.

    Is it just me or is this a fairly ill thought out bit of road - there must be a few cyclists with this as part of their commute.

    Interested to hear people's thoughts.

    (for the record my solution is a mixture of 1 and 2)

    Posted 9 years ago #

  2. Roibeard
    Member

    When I've done that route, I've dismounted the end of Lothian Road, walked across the corner of the pavement, and remounted on Princes Street. The reverse manoeuvre is to turn left on to Princes Street (bus, taxis and bikes only), dismount at the Lothian Road lights, walk across the corner of the pavement and turn out on to Lothian Road.

    The detour via Charlotte Square seems daft compared to a couple of strides across some pavement!

    Equally daft that there isn't cycle infrastructure at this point to accommodate the route...

    Robert

    Posted 9 years ago #

  3. edinburgh87
    Member

    Agreed, to be clear by 'cut across' I meant dismounted. But it's definitely a bit of a planning oversight.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  4. Charlethepar
    Member

    That used to me on my route to work, linking to the WoL under Dean Bridge, until I gave up the challenge of getting across that junction.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  5. jdanielp
    Member

    Are there not dropped curbs (but perhaps not painted bike signs on the pavement as there are between The Mound and Princes Street) specifically for this very purpose? I am sure that I saw someone using that route but in entirely the wrong direction recently (not Arnold Schwarzenegger).

    Posted 9 years ago #

  6. Roibeard
    Member

    Sorry for casting aspersions, due to the "illegal left" above - it is, of course, perfectly legal to walk across and cycle on both Lothian Road and Princes Street at these points, the only illegal bit would be to cycle between the two!

    Robert

    Posted 9 years ago #

  7. remberbuck
    Member

    @jdanielp there are dropped curbs as you point out, and there for that purpose. Generally the light sequence is friendly, and the westbound Princes Street traffic is halted, allowing you straight on to the lights. Which can stay red for ages.

    An alternative is turn left towards Rutland Square past the hotel, and then onto the paved expanse. But it's vulnerable to other traffic trying to overtake.

    Going south is a bit harder as you can get boxed in by buses also wanting to go to Princes Street from Queensferry Street, so staying on the outside at the Queensferry lights pays dividends. Alternatively dismount, cross the road and make for the pedestrian crossing opposite the Ghillie Dhu.

    Good luck.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  8. Stickman
    Member

    Improving this route is on the list of future cycling projects.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  9. ih
    Member

    " Interested to hear people's thoughts."

    My thoughts are that there shouldn't be any junctions in Edinburgh where the options available to bikes are limited. The restrictions are there entirely for the purposes of 'traffic flow' so bikes shouldn't be constrained by rules which are not intended for them.

    Okay, this will need quite a lot of thinking, which is certainly not evident at the moment. Junctions should be a top priority for cycling infrastructure because I think that it's the perceived and real hazards at junctions that put a lot of people off cycling, and create a genuine barrier. It doesn't matter how good the infrastructure is on a section of road without junctions, if you reach a junction with no infrastructure you are stuffed.

    As for the Lothian Road / Princes Street junction, it is currently very intimidating no matter which 'legal' route you want to take, and there are no inherent reasons that all the 'illegal' routes shouldn't be provided for bikes. It needs a properly designed Dutch standard infrastructure that allows bikes safely to negotiate, Lothian Road, to Shandwick Place, Queensferry Street, Hope Street, Princes Street, and all the other combinations of those streets. That way we might be on track to get some good east west, and north south routes. It could be done with some imagination.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  10. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    When I went to Copenhagen 6... 7? years ago there was a very similar junction. Well, slightly different because there were cycle specific lights etc, but there was one side street that couldn't be accessed directly, so people just cycled across the pavement.

    I was shown this junction by Mikael Colville-Anderson (yes, that one) and he mentioned that someone from the council saw people doing this and.... organised that bike symbols were painted on the cut-through so that it was official.

    (I actually introduced Mr C-A to the concept of 'desire lines', which he has referred to many times since).

    Anyway, agreed on the approaches (I'd get off and push the short pavement distance, not just because you shouldn't be cycling on it, but because it can be a pretty busy pedestrian space on which cycling is not expected); and that 'something' needs to be done to improve it for cycling. But then Lothian Road from the Filmhouse down to Princes Street, in both directions, is abysmal for cycling.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  11. chdot
    Admin

    "But then Lothian Road from the Filmhouse down to Princes Street, in both directions, is abysmal for cycling."

    Plenty of room for...

    Posted 9 years ago #

  12. minus six
    Member

    I navigate this area in both directions daily

    feign a languid riding style between dropped kerbs

    avoids spooking the horses

    Posted 9 years ago #

  13. wingpig
    Member

    Instead of Charlotte Square there's also the West Approach-Canning St-Dewar Place-Torphichen St-Palmerston Place-Chester St route, avoiding the illegal right turn out of Canning St across to Stafford St if you go along Rututtuttland Place and Square.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  14. kaputnik
    Moderator

    I make an "illegal" right turn out of George Street to go round the north face of Charlotte square by "feigning a languid riding style" across the island. If there's peds about I fully dismount then re-mount 4 steps later, if not I sort of skeet that bit. An officious polis could probably have me on trumped-up charges, but nobody's (yet) died.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  15. jonty
    Member

    That right turn was perfectly legal last summer when the council wanted to pretend the pedestrian island was quality bike infrastructure. Shame they couldn't have kept it, would hurry things up along that corridor a bit.

    Posted 9 years ago #

  16. edinburgh87
    Member

    Thanks guys, I'll bear this post in mind as I seethe my way through that junction twice a day :)

    Posted 9 years ago #

  17. Fountainbridge
    Member

    1) an illegal left onto Prince St and/or turn/cut across the pavement outside Kyloe

    Photo below of the dropped kerb, and there's a matching drop on the Lothian Road side.

    I'm sure I've seen tram related plans for this to be a cycle route, but I checked the trams TRO plans and there's no sign of it. TRO says "For Left-turn cyclists to dismount"

    Wonder if the Cally or Rutland hotel asked the council to drop the route?

    Tried having a look on planning portal but it seems to be having a wobly

    150721142641IMG_2392 by Paul fae Fountainbridge, on Flickr

    Posted 9 years ago #

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