@steveo, ok, just the changing time ;-)
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Events, rides etc.
SEStran Commuter Challenge 2016 - commuters needed
(124 posts)-
Posted 7 years ago #
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@Harts Cyclery
Not quite that simple as most people wash before leaving the house regardless of transport choice. If I run to work I move the shower to the office, but leave earlier as a result.
What needs added is changing/faffing with lockers, which can be trivial or material depending on layout, attitude and so on.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I agree with many points made above but would also add that cycling may be seen as a good way to keep fit. And Scotland would certainly benefit from a fitter population.
Whilst this does not necessarily mean busting a gut and getting PBs, it may well mean producing a little sweat. But one of the great attractions of combining commuting with a little bit of fitness training is time efficiency. The commuter challenge shows this.
Cycling has several key audiences - we should aim to encourage all of them.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Folk who cycle from far away, that's great, but we're not going to achieve mass cycling with folk cycling 13 miles at 15+mph.
Makes me think of the folk who cycle from Dunfermline to central Edinburgh. Even an extremist like me regards them as extremists. Anyone know how many cyclists cross the Forth in summer and winter?
Posted 7 years ago # -
amir, you're right. However folk want to do it it's up to them and it needs to appeal to all. My point is that the majority of folk aren't keep fit fanatics and don't go to the gym. They need to be convinced on a convenience and cost benefit basis, which means minimising faff and that means not changing/showering in work.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@HartsCyclery, I assume you'd shower before you leave the house in your work clothes, so you should add it to your travel time :-)
Posted 7 years ago # -
BTW wet wipes are quite an effective alternative to showers
Posted 7 years ago # -
@paddyirish, see my reply to @steveo
Posted 7 years ago # -
Graeme, Surely the car drivers and those who are suited and booted on their Gazelle's have a shower before they start out? i.e. negating the argument to add showering time onto any of the journey times since it's a sequence thing as opposed to duration.
Though I'd give that to you on a school drop off day, where I have limited time from the school bell to get to work. Probably quicker showering, drop-off and then pootling than cranking it along the road and getting showered at work.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Also, consider, for example, my wife. She showers, blow drys her hair and straightens it. If she were to shower at work she'd have to bring all of her paraphernalia in to work with her, or have 2 sets. However, if she had a relaxed cycle in, like a walk, she could do all that at home and just arrive at work as if she'd driven or got the bus or walked. Surely folk here can see that showering/changing at work as a massive barrier to casual/mass cycling.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Argh, Marc, I revised my comment to just changing! :-)
Posted 7 years ago # -
IWRATS
In terms of numbers, in the course of a 1 hr ride, I would say I meet about 8-10 Fife-working regulars in winter and probably 20-30 in summer, though on sunny days there are a lot of leisure cyclists). I rarely overtake/am overtaken so don't know about Edinburgh Bound Cyclists (I could be 2 mins behind someone and someone else 2 mins behind me all the way in and none of us would know of the other's existence...)
@acsimpson rides "against the flow" and would have a better idea...
I'll volunteer to a Spokes Count on the bridge next time.
Posted 7 years ago # -
wet wipes are quite an effective alternative to showers
At the risk of generalising hopelesly, there are sections of Scottish society that will not appear at work voluntarily in anything less than a perfect state of grooming. We mustn't minimise that as a barrier to active travel. The barrier must be challenged and circumvented, not ignored.
Vonny Moyes appears to be highly groomed at all times - I'd be keen to hear what she learned in Denmark about that.
Posted 7 years ago # -
IWRATS. Correct!!
Posted 7 years ago # -
I agree its an obstacle for some. Though my work does provide hair driers in each shower and a couple of sets of straighteners, I realise this is unusual.
My commute is so short (about a mile) that its barely worth taking the bike so most days I'll get ready in the house and pootle along the Broomhouse Path, some days I'll take the road with a bit more gusto but even on those days I don't work hard enough to work up any significant sweat.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I don't think even long distancies require showering. I never have a shower at work, there's not one in my building.
Even if I do the long commute at 21 miles, so long as I keep my speed to about 12mph ave, then there is no sweat and therefor no shower required...
I think everyone on the shorter legs came in on an ave speed quicker than my 12mph from Ferrytoll, even the fully suited rider.
As I mentioned earlier, 12mph ave on a sit up bike is very quick, I tend to sit arround 8mph ave on my Pashley.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@Harts Cyclery
The key issues are....gulp....class, gender and age. There. I said it.
No one expects ageing middle class men like me to be anything other than passable.
Posted 7 years ago # -
To summarise:
Some people will want showers at work
Some people will not want showers at work
Some people will cycle in cycling clothing
Some people will cycle in everyday clothing
Some people will want to wash their hair
Some people will not, or not have hair
Some people will cycle quickly
Some people will cycle slowly
Some people will be newbies who are unfit and haven't cycled in ages
Some people will be newbies who are gym bunnies and fit though haven't cycled in agesI shower at home (I have an absolute hatred of communal showers), but still ride in what could be termed 'fast' pace. But I freshen up in the locker room, always have clean clothes, and have not had any complaints (and I've worked places with straight talking people who I have asked to tell me if I end up honking in the corner). I generally wear cycle clothing, though subtley so (except in high summer when cycle jerseys really are the business). I sometimes ride in jeans, or even my suit (on lunchtime errands). Frankly the only thing that bothers me is having something to lock my bike to, and somewhere to change my clothes (which has, in the past, been the smallest of toilet cubicles).
I hate the term 'holistic approach', but really, we need to stop seeking that magic bullet, and realise there are about 117 things they do in Copenhagen that all combined, if implemented here, would lead to a cycling revolution.
I mean, even the little things, like ramps rather than kerbs (even an inch or two of a kerb can make a route annoying), or when I was there coming across roadworks in the bike lane, so they took space away from the cars to create a barriered cycle lane AND put in temporary tarmac (not plastic cover) ramps off and back on to the cycle lane). Here? 'Lane Closed' and... erm... stuff ye.
Seriously, pondering showers at work and whether people riding at 15mph from Fife is offputting to others is trawling for red herrings. "Oi, cyclist! You're putting people off being cyclists by being a cyclist!" Aye, all our own fault. We should all be the same.
Or as amir put much more succinctly, "Cycling has several key audiences - we should aim to encourage all of them"
Posted 7 years ago # -
WC, I think all that has been alluded to. The specific point is, no one expects anyone who drives a car to do anything other than get in it, drive it, and get out of it at the other end. If we want cycling to be appealing to *the largest number of people possible* then cycling needs to be the same. And if folk want to cycle 25 miles at 18mph average then that's great too, but it can only be and ever will be a minority.
The Council need to do their bit and so do SESTrans with events like this.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"no one expects anyone who drives a car to do anything other than get in it, drive it, wait in traffic in it, check texts/emails, do hair, eat breakfast, spend AGES looking for a parking place and get out of it at the other end."
FIFY
Posted 7 years ago # -
Nice thread hijack.
Well done to everyone who did the challenge. And you got another great day for it too!
Posted 7 years ago # -
"... then cycling needs to be the same"
That's the problem though. Cycling isn't the same, which makes selling it much more difficult.
Yes, riding in from Fife at pace will be a minority, but some people will be fit already and want to cycle in town, but be put off because they think it's 'slow', and so by saying "ah, you can ride in your suit at 8mph and it's grand" you're putting those people off.
It would be lovely if we could be like Copenhagen. To get there doesn't mean excluding various groups of cyclists from our thinking, because frankly Copenhagen is not going to happen by telling people they can dress normally and cycle slowly, that happens because the atmosphere around cycling infrastructure is fundamentally different, which can only happen with political will. Copenhagenized cycling is an effect, not a cause.
When I started up Citycycling years back the strapline was, and still is, "No matter what you ride, as long as you do..." which got varied at times over the years such as "No matter how fast you ride..." or "No matter what you wear to ride...." And while the Fifer fast lot are a minority, in Edinburgh at the moment the be-suited pootler is also a minority. I love them both, I want to appeal to them both, and I want to encourage them both.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"If we want cycling to be appealing to *the largest number of people possible* then cycling needs to be the same."
I think that's fine and dandy, but on the other hand to try and brand cycling as a quicker alternative to the car in that context is disingenious, again, my Pashley times from most of the locations would have been beaten by the car.
It's not until you dawn the gimp suits and cycle @>12mph ave that cycling starts to become competative with a car in terms of speed...
As a said earlier, putting a couple of fast people on sit up bikes isn't representative...
*edit The wider points about everybody to their own, that...
Posted 7 years ago # -
@paddyirish, yep. Stuff that folk are STILL prepared to tolerate, because it seemingly doesn't involve as much hassle as showering/changing etc at work, having clean clothes there etc etc.
Posted 7 years ago # -
My tuppence worth is that the infra we currently have isn't conducive to pootling along and therefore speed is often used to make the ride feel safer.
On my various bikes I have a variety of travel speeds (10-18mph) and whenever I mix with traffic, I always want to be going faster to reduce closing speeds or get out of people's way sooner. As a result I usually get hot on a bike.
We did previously have a thread about a 'ride like you granny day (sub 10mph)'
People starting out don't have the luxury of speed or effortless pootling...
Posted 7 years ago # -
@HankChief - absolutely right. The most scary and dangerous parts of cycling are trying to use what passes for cycle infrastructure while mixing with fast traffic, against the wind and uphill. Cycling out to IKEA beyond the bypass is the one I usually cite for this - you need to cross lanes of traffic to get into the cycle or bus lanes, but some days it's really hard work to get above 12 mph.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Precisely so, Hank Chief. Which is why the Roseburn path is an absolutely crucial piece of infrastructure.
Posted 7 years ago # -
WC: Or as amir put much more succinctly, "Cycling has several key audiences - we should aim to encourage all of them"
There's lots of messages that could come out of this event. For example:
- I found a route I would have happily taken my children on when they were younger
- In several places roadworks could have been better thought out for cyclists
- The experience was much better than I would have had in a train, bus or car
Posted 7 years ago # -
Could stick it on the Start on a Friday website?
Posted 7 years ago # -
@hankchief and I had a silly commuter race today. Those who follow him on Strava will know that trying to race him head-to-head is never going to end well for you, so in true (old) Top Gear style we did the challenge in different ways.
We both left a meeting in Charlotte Square at 0955. Me in a suit with Brompton, him in casual non-cycling clothes with his mega-tagalongtastic bike parked round the corner. We raced to our office in the West.
I walked the bike to the Shandwick Place tramstop. in the time that it took me to persuade the ticket machine that my 10p was real money, a tram came and went. While I was waiting for the next one, hankchief came by on his bike and gave me a cheery wave.
I boarded the next tram and sat out of the rain all the way to the stop near the office. I disembarked, unfolded the bike and rode the last half mile to the office in my suit (in the rain). Folded bike, straight to my desk, and was logged on to the computer at 10:30 with the bike under the desk next to me.
hankchief actually got to the office before me, but time spent securing bike and changing meant that he didn't get to his desk until 10:37.
So there.
Posted 7 years ago #
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