CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Commuting

Commuter Drafting - It's not the TDF

(27 posts)
  • Started 8 years ago by biggles1982
  • Latest reply from minus six

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  1. biggles1982
    Member

    How do you feel about being drafted on your commute?

    This may be a slightly controversial view but it’s something that really bugs me. Before I get accused of being unsociable I’ve got no problem with somebody keeping up with me and chatting alongside, what I do take issue with is either somebody catching up with me and then sitting on my wheel (sometimes without me realising) or overtaking somebody who then decides that they’ll then put a bit of effort in to keep up.

    I’ve experienced both of these situations without the other rider uttering a word to me. Surely basic common manners would be to ask the person if they minded being drafted?

    Part of this is I don’t like drafting people and would rather put in the effort to cycle myself. Another reason is that I was cycling along the NEPN from Leith to Crewe Toll last year when somebody started drafting me without me realising. Just after Crewe Toll two guys were walking along the path in the same direction and started to veer away from each other at which point I slowed down to pass them at a safe speed. The guy behind me went to overtake and crashed into one of the guys. He had switched off completely and was blindly following so that when I slowed down he never realised what for. That may be an unfortunate incident but I’d rather not be responsible for the person cycling behind me. I think everybody has a responsibility to look after themselves and ride responsibly and not transferring that responsibility onto somebody else.

    So what's your take on it? Do you do it? Do you mind it being done to you? Is there a certain etiquette that goes with it?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  2. fimm
    Member

    And another question for everyone while we are at it:

    When you see the videos of cyclists on the new London Superhighways, or in the Netherlands, do you think those cyclists are all drafting one another, or are they just lots of cyclists on the same bit of tarmac? Would you be happy cycling with so many other cyclists around you?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  3. AKen
    Member

    I often end up 'drafting' people when cycling along the canal path. Even if it is safe to pass, if I'm travelling at about the same speed as they are, I don't see the point in rushing past to get to my destination 30 secs faster. (Although, it is good to leave a gap big enough to compensate for the fact that you can't see through them.)

    Posted 8 years ago #

  4. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Yes but what about when you're behind someone just a wee bit slower than you and you don't want to look like an oaf by overtaking and hanging around in front of them so you stick behind them and they look round and think you're some crazy stalker so you overtake and sprint away feeling ashamed for no reason and out of breath?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  5. chdot
    Admin

    "it is good to leave a gap"

    Quite.

    There are people on here who really don't like being followed closely and others less bothered.

    In general if you don't know the person in front and can't pass, best to stay back in case they stop (for whatever reason) - especially on shared paths.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  6. chdot
    Admin

    "Would you be happy cycling with so many other cyclists around you?"

    *Obviously* 'we' would have to say yes!(?)

    Too many (other) cyclists...

    Posted 8 years ago #

  7. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Similar discussion two weeks ago:

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7059&page=89#post-223772

    Posted 8 years ago #

  8. jdanielp
    Member

    I'm not a fan of drafting. I will stay back several bike lengths until I can pass if I catch someone and will slow right down to force a drafter to pass me if they persist.

    I'm not sure that I would feel very comfortable with the levels of traffic on the London Superhighways etc. The busiest cycling environments that I have experienced are PoP, although the speeds are mostly so slow there that it hardly feels like an issue, and the single-lane sections of the Pedal for Scotland 'closed' route last September. The latter situation definitely felt a bit hairy in places.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  9. Coxy
    Member

    What do we consider drafting?

    I would say that it's less than a wheel's length.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  10. wingpig
    Member

    "And another question for everyone while we are at it:

    When you see the videos of cyclists on the new London Superhighways, or in the Netherlands, do you think those cyclists are all drafting one another, or are they just lots of cyclists on the same bit of tarmac? Would you be happy cycling with so many other cyclists around you?"

    False comparison with busier places. If you were the only people having a picnic in a large field and another party came into the field and set up their blanket two inches from yours, it'd be weird. If the field was full and two inches from yours was the only space, it'd not be weird.
    Watch the people having picnics on the grass east of the TSA sometime - they're often perfectly evenly distributed across the space available

    Posted 8 years ago #

  11. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    As Arellcat says, been discussed very recently, my main thoughts remain the same. You've no idea how good/aware the person drafting you is, and that makes me feel uncomfortable. This very morning a guy decided to draft me into the headwind along a part of Glasgow Road. Only knew he was there because I turned to check the other lane was free, with a delivery van blocking the bus lane. He was very close, and a taxi driver was in the other lane, so I felt boxed in.

    Now I knew I was faster than this rider. I'd caught up as we approached the city centre, then took different routes, which popped me out slightly in front (having stopped to remove and stow a long-sleeved top!), so he was definitely taking advantage of the fact. At first I tried dropping him, which didn't work, given my headwind and his shelter, so I slowed by 5mph, and he just refused to go by. Went on for about a mile till he turned off.

    At the very least he could have taken a turn on the front.

    I'm generally okay with close cycling, riding cyclocross there's a lot of shoulder to shoulder stuff, and being very close to wheels in front despite the surface and conditions, so it's not a 'fear factor' in that sense that makes me not like people drafting me.

    Primary reason for not liking it: it's rude.

    Secondary reason: I'd rather not have to slow suddenly, or swerve for a pothole etc etc and have the possibility of someone going into the back of me.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  12. condor2378
    Member

    @Coxy for triathlon purposes it's 3 bike lengths, but it all comes down to personal preferences and experience. Some don't mind someone sitting off the back as long as they take a turn pulling, others don't even like seeing another cyclist heading in the same direction (joke).

    I've spend a good many hours on the Meadowbank velodrome boards so I'm comfortable being in groups where elbows are touching and you're a few inches off the wheel in front and behind but as for daily commuting I'm on the road with a tagalong so I'm never drafted, and wouldn't want someone doing this off my 4 year olds back wheel. That said, when cycling with my wife and we're single file, I'll be a few inches off her rear wheel, and she doesn't mind as she knows that I'm looking ahead of her to see that it's safe.

    I think that 3 bike lengths is sufficient distance between without needing to alert your presence.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  13. stiltskin
    Member

    The point about drafting is that it should be consensual.
    Otherwise as WC says: It's just plain bad manners.
    It is also bloomin' stupid doing it on a cyclepath where there are likely to be numerous obstructions & where you shouldn't be going fast enough for it to make a significant difference.
    I'd also go for the 3 bike lengths definition.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  14. fimm
    Member

    Triathlon draft zone has gone up. It is 10 meters these days...

    I will sit tight on Boyfriend of Fimm's wheel when we are out in the countryside, but drafting him (or anyone else) requires a lot of concentration. In towns I sit further back because I like to be able to see what is going on and be able to manoeuvre independently.

    I get the impression that one person's "following someone because there's no need to overtake" is another's wheelsucking.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  15. stiltskin
    Member

    I get the impression that one person's "following someone because there's no need to overtake" is another's wheelsucking.
    So why not follow 10 yards back? would be my argument. You have to be pretty close to get any benefit at commuting speeds, so why not just leave a decent gap. It is much more pleasant to do so in any case.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  16. gembo
    Member

    If someone overtakes me then slows because it is windier than they realised I will take a tow. Much better than tit for tat overtaking. After awhile I will give a tow back. Give and take is good.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  17. mmaohara
    Member

    I wouldn't like to be drafted but fortunately I am much too slow and anyone following me would get very frustrated/bored and they nearly always overtake me very quickly. :-)

    Posted 8 years ago #

  18. fimm
    Member

    10 meters is quite a big distance. I wouldn't sit that far back from someone somewhere like the canal towpath (not that I cycle there very often) or the NEPN (which I do use). I'm going to be a bike length or a bit more back. That's not 10 metres. In my world, drafting is when you are less than a wheel length back, and all your attention is spent on keeping that distance and looking out for hazards/signals from the people in front.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  19. chdot
    Admin

    "looking out for hazards/signals from the people in front"

    Think that's the key to this.

    If there is a random stranger behind you, you have no idea if they would understand your signals (if you were minded to give any).

    Likewise, if you get too close to someone you don't know, no reason to expect any helpful signals.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  20. dougal
    Member

    I've never been in a group ride (in the roadie sense) but as I understand it there's more to it than just following really closely... There seems to be a consensus here.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  21. Dave
    Member

    I was thinking that this doesn't apply to me since there's never anyone going at the right speed for me to draft on my commute.

    But actually I do often take advantage of traffic moving just a bit faster than me to get some shelter from the wind. Those drivers haven't asked me to ride behind them and possibly feel the same way as some of the cyclists commenting in this topic. Makes you think a bit.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  22. biggles1982
    Member

    thanks all, pleased to see I'm not the only one. Interesting that this seems to be a popular topic of conversation as well.

    I got annoyed at a guy last week who I passed and then tagged on. He never took the message on the 3 accelerations I made. I just put the brakes on sharply and let him go past and then went past him again and made it stick.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  23. jonty
    Member

    What proportion of utility cyclists in Edinburgh do we think know that drafting is a thing?

    Posted 8 years ago #

  24. gembo
    Member

    Michael Matthews drafting Sagan today.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  25. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    "What proportion of utility cyclists in Edinburgh do we think know that drafting is a thing?"

    Likely very few. I also suspect very few of the drafters are 'pure' utility cyclists. Certainly when I'm drafted it's wannabe racers, often in some replica kit or other.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  26. threefromleith
    Member

    I had a drafter nearly rear-end me last week on the NEPN near Craigleith.

    I'd been aware he was there, but I'd slowed as there were two peds walking towards me on my side of the path, and a cyclist coming the other had started passing them, temporarily blocking the whole path ahead. Matey-boy behind hadn't been paying attention to what was ahead of us, hadn't anticipated that I'd slow, and had to try and swerve around me whilst grabbing handfuls of brake to avoid an impact.

    Posted 8 years ago #

  27. minus six
    Member

    Porte drafting motorbike today

    Posted 8 years ago #

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