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"Bike journey target ‘unlikely’ to be achieved in Scotland"

(21 posts)
  • Started 7 years ago by spytfyre
  • Latest reply from crowriver

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  1. spytfyre
    Member

  2. crowriver
    Member

    ' Transport Scotland said it was sticking to its 10 per cent goal. A spokesman for the agency said: “We remain determined to realise the vision of 10 per cent of everyday journeys in Scotland to be taken by bike by 2020. We will consider all recommendations from Cycling Scotland’s report as we look to refresh CAPS.” '

    Can't wait to see the billions they're going to invest in segregated bike lanes over the next four years. Oh wait, sorry I meant the billions they're going to invest in segregated motor vehicle lanes, otherwise known as dual carriageways...

    Posted 7 years ago #
  3. paulmilne
    Member

    We need a governmental Cycling supergroup with reps from Transport, Health, Environment and Climate Change, Communities, Tourism, Economy/Rural Economy and pulling a percentage of budgets from these ministries/department. That way a shedload of money come into developing cycling without any individual area taking too massive a hit.

    The flipside of course is decreasing the use of private cars - the elephant in the room. What we need is an elephant hunter who isn't afraid to pull the trigger.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  4. wishicouldgofaster
    Member

    Reasons for not achieving -
    1) Failure to maintain existing cycling infrastructure i.e. bike lanes, ASL areas, cycle paths etc
    2) Tendency to ruin cycle paths by putting in chicanes, barriers etc to make them slower but more dangerous for cyclists
    3) Failure to maintain roads including quiet ones to allow cyclists a flat surface to cycle on
    4) Failure to enforce any cycling infrastructure from vehicle abuse (no-one prosecuted in Scotland)
    5) Failure to enforce punishments for bad driving (& bad cycling)
    6) Failure to tackle the anti cycling attitudes

    People perceive cycling as dangerous and the Govt and police are doing absolutely nothing to convince them otherwise.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  5. mgj
    Member

    +1 for the above. Sadly 5b has partly caused 6 but its probably too late to fix now.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  6. Ed1
    Member

    In Livingston I don’t think there is one cycle lane or one ASL, although many of the paths and underpasses are shared use, a bit like cycling on the pavement unlike say the tracks in Edinburgh so would normally cycle on the road in Livingston. There is no good bike space either on the pavement shared used with people understandably not over joyed or on the road with people understandably not overjoyed.

    Livingston has dangerous motorway type slip lanes bad for driving and bad for cycling. Also may have the psychological effect of people associating as a motorway. If the junctions were changed would have traffic calming effect, and speed limit of 40 mph or below currently 50 mph cycle lanes may be better. In Livingston all poor interchanges where have to be in the outside lane when going to the A71 with no passing lane engineered in so cars get held up so get left hand passes

    In Edinburgh 20s plenty Livingston still has 50 mph roads 2 lane roads in quite built up areas. The roads are also built too narrow for cycle lanes so tend to get more close passes. Like many new towns Livingston is an example of how not to do things. I cycle to Edinburgh and Livingston its strange the contrasts Livingston has lighter traffic the design makes less good than need be.

    Although in Edinburgh there may be a lot been done to promote cycling in Livingston seems more like 80s.

    For a town of 50000 quite poor, even many small villages such as Doune have some token infrastructure possibly an asl or something in Livingston cant think anything

    Posted 7 years ago #
  7. crowriver
    Member

    “We remain determined to realise the vision of 10 per cent of everyday journeys in Scotland to be taken by bike by 2020."

    Budget for trunk roads and motorways: £820 million
    Budget for walking and cycling infrastructure: £41 million

    Just 0.5% of the money will magically bring about 10% of journeys apparently.

    Transport Scotland are "determined", but not THAT determined...
    Determined to take the Michael only.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  8. mgj
    Member

    Aren't Transport Scotland only responsible for longer distance journeys? £41M spent on long distance cycle paths sounds about right; pressure needs to go on to local authorities who are responsible for most of the roads cycled.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  9. Morningsider
    Member

    mgj - the £41m Crowriver mentions is for all "active and sustainable travel" - walking, cycling, green buses, electric vehicle charging points and so on.

    Much of this money is channelled through SUSTRANS to support local authority expenditure on sustainable travel. Generally local authorities match fund SUSTRANS funding, providing 50% of the cost of any project from their own budgets.

    What Scotland needs is a costed 10-year action plan for cycle infrastructure development, with annual targets and a substantial, committed budget. All infrastructure should be built to the highest international standards.

    Once the core infrastructure is in place there should be a concerted campaign to encourage modal shift combined with action to make car travel less attractive - reduction in parking spaces and increases in parking charges would seem a good place to start.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  10. Arellcat
    Moderator

    10-year plan...substantial, committed budget.

    There's your problem.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  11. LaidBack
    Member

    Schools are a good place to start. Here's how the new Burroughmuir layout beside our new shop might look. I 'think' there might be a ramp down beside parking bays. The bridge over Union Canal becomes single lane with crossing. Road is still two way so this should make driving (and walking?) not that attractive. Wider pavement will be used by cyclist whether it's marked or not. Of course this could get messy. A bolder move would be to close the whole road to everything except school access vehicles.

    I know this could be on another thread but even small schemes map out how the next generation will choose to travel. If mum or dad can roll their car down to school gates then they set an example. Note bike ASLs on road. Surely a bike lane should bypass this pinch point?

    Burroghmuir School access at Viewforth Bridge by LaidBackBikes, on Flickr

    Posted 7 years ago #
  12. "Although in Edinburgh there may be a lot been done to promote cycling in Livingston seems more like 80s."

    That was very interesting reading, partly because I remember a few years back having a discussion on here about Livingston with someone who suggested that everyone just cycled n the pavements in Livingston, and that worked well for cyclists, and there was no aggro about it.

    Can't for the life of me remember who was saying that, will have to root about.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  13. Baldcyclist
    Member

    I've gone on about Livi a number of times. Council essentially made every path shared use longer ago than I can remember. Signage etc has appeared as the years went on.

    I go on about it for a bit here...
    http://baldcyclist.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/even-if-it-is-never-used-i-say-build-it.html

    I did mention once that it never actually occured to me until well into adulthood that cyclists wearen't allowed on pavements, because for the 40 or so years I lived in Livingston, they were, and no-one batted an eyelid at seeing a cyclist on the path.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  14. crowriver
    Member

    "10-year plan...substantial, committed budget."

    Well for the past nine years the plan has been to have an insubstantial, uncommitted budget, and point the finger at/pass the buck to local authorities as required. Can't see it changing any time soon. Only four years to go, and then magically cycle journeys will be 10%. Hurray!

    Posted 7 years ago #
  15. Hobgoblin
    Member

    @Ed1 I live and work in Livingston and have mixed views on the infrastructure. As with most cycle routes they look good on paper but are quite annoying to use.

    In the mornings I cycle to work, mostly on the route 75 path because it is usually very quiet. It is the most direct route too. However, I usually take the road on the way home to avoid pedestrians dawdling side by side, or dog walkers with extending leads and poor control of their animals. In the dark winter evenings, parts of the path are poorly lit and there is a section that is covered in leaves for weeks at a time. This also gives me a longer but less steep hill to climb.

    I am sure the paths were designed by non-cyclists who imagine everyone rides at walking pace. It would have been nice for the centre of the town to have something more impressive and living up to the name of "The Boulevard" rather than a dual carriageway leading to the shopping centre car parks.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  16. gibbo
    Member

    @wishicouldgofaster

    "People perceive cycling as dangerous"

    People correctly perceive cycling as dangerous.

    To get 10% - or anything close to it - cycling has to be safe, fast and pleasant.

    That means segregated routes, decent tarmac, and bike parking infrastructure.

    Is there any city in Europe with 10% that doesn't have all of these things?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  17. Arellcat
    Moderator

    I am sure the (Livingston) paths were designed by non-cyclists who imagine everyone rides at walking pace.

    It was the 1960s, after all. Wasn't cycling something done by people who couldn't afford cars, and walking was what you did when you weren't driving?

    Rightly or wrongly I've never explored Livingston much. I frequented the BMX track in the 90s, but always got there by car. When I took the torpedo through to Glasgow for PfS I couldn't work out how to get onto the cycle path network; the one road level entrance I did find was up a kerb and through a chicane gate. I made do with the A71/Bankton Road, which was an unpleasant experience.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  18. wingpig
    Member

    Livingston's paths are probably useful if you're used to them and know which ones to use, but I encounter them rarely and have never had a journey using them go smoothly, even with internet mapping.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  19. Baldcyclist
    Member

    "Livingston's paths are probably useful if you're used to them and know which ones to use, but I encounter them rarely and have never had a journey using them go smoothly, even with internet mapping."

    I think that is fair of a number of places, and good signage is definitely key. I was cycling in Edinburgh for years before I even knew the path network existed. It was here, and DaveC when I moved to Fife that made me aware it was possible to get to the city limits on cycle paths.

    Growing up in, and (or) knowing a place well does make all the difference.

    " am sure the (Livingston) paths were designed by non-cyclists who imagine everyone rides at walking pace."

    definitely the case, however they key thing they did understand (there's a video somewhere, I'll find it), was that pedestrian / cycle interaction with motorised traffic is a bad thing, and that those modes of traffic should be kept apart, hence all of the underpasses / bridges to navigate roads, and the fact that no shops or schools have a road directly outside the front door*.

    *This has been lost on modern town planners, and the newer bits of the town, although still connect to the existing path networks are designed with driveways next to the houses.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  20. gkgk
    Member

    "To get 10% - or anything close to it - cycling has to be safe, fast and pleasant."
    Completely agree w/ Gibbo, same thing said by the street design architect guy who came over from Cph/Amsterdam/similar for one of those Nordic Horizon talks at the parliament 3-4 years back, said town planners just have to make cycling the easiest option and commuters will cycle - note then that better buses means less cycling, all else being equal - and that he wouldn't currently cycle in Edinburgh, too dangerous.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  21. crowriver
    Member

    "Is there any city in Europe with 10% that doesn't have all of these things?"

    Cambridge? (15% last time I checked).

    "I think that is fair of a number of places, and good signage is definitely key. I was cycling in Edinburgh for years before I even knew the path network existed. "

    Me too. I think Spokes made me aware of it through their excellent map, sometime in the late 90s/early 2000s.

    Posted 7 years ago #

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