CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
"Edinburgh's post-war architecture should be cherished"
(63 posts)-
Posted 13 years ago #
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best get my cards on the table. I really like Modernist and Brutalist and Industrial architecture (in the right places, and carried out properly of course!)
I will mourn Cockenzie Power Station when they knock it down.
The Commonwealth Pool and the Scottish Widows building opposite rank amongst my favourite buildings in Edinburgh
It's better than a lot of the glass and sandstone cladding box nonesense that we're currently inflicted with.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Not Bouch's original bridge:
We've already lost Portobello Power Station, and all of the box girder bridges of the Leith New Lines.
Posted 13 years ago # -
That said I'm not sure I could ever bring myself to love the Coal Board and Post Office towers up at Lauriston (not-so sadly deceased)
Posted 13 years ago # -
It's better than a lot of the glass and sandstone cladding box nonesense that we're currently inflicted with.
True enough, although I will never be a fan of brutalist/modernist. Anyone else been watching 'the secret life of the national grid' on BBC4? Fascinating social history - remarkably gripping to watch.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Anyone else been watching 'the secret life of the national grid' on BBC4?
Absolutely! Some mighty fine examples of industrial architecture for me to get all excited over.
Posted 13 years ago # -
"Scottish Widows building opposite rank amongst my favourite buildings in Edinburgh"
It's almost as though the architect actually thought about the context - Arthur's Seat in the background - when designing it!
On the other hand I will be very happy when this goes.
Blocking the view of Donaldson's was town 'planning' at its crassest.
Posted 13 years ago # -
"Brutalist and Industrial architecture"
The prize for this in Edinburgh must have gone to the bond replaced by Sainsbury's at Westfield Road.
http://www.edinburgharchitecture.co.uk/whisky_bond_gorgie.htm
Posted 13 years ago # -
Also -
Re 'modern' and 'context' -
The Gasometer and the new(ish) Scottish Gas office block.
http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1556#post-16396
Posted 13 years ago # -
"
National Grid says the creation of an urban village at Granton's Forthquarter is now "undeliverable for the foreseeable future" after councillors voted against a plan to demolish the gas holding tower.
"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/edinburgh/2010/nov/11/edinburgh-granton-forthquarter-botanics-high-speed-railPosted 13 years ago # -
Forthquarter. (sic, it's theforthquarter)
I wonder how much it cost to come up with that gimmicy silly pun of a placename for a place that already has a perfectly good name?
And that's before you pay out to a branding consultancy who tells you that in order to be "bold, visionary, forward thinking, world class, iconic and visionary (again)" that you need to to delete all the spaces, drop it all into lower case, use selective colouring to pick out the word "the" (why not pick out "forthquarter"? perhaps someone was rightfully embarrassed at how stupid a name it is and decided to try hide it in dull orange on dark blue). And to really make sure they're earning their commision, they'll tell you that you must use a typeface that's vaguely Helvetica-esque but sufficiently different to make it at least appear like you put some thought into it and weren't just jumping on the sans serif cliché bandwagon
</rant>
At least it was National Grid wasting their own money (despite the fact that they only "own" the land through a quirk of their conception)
Posted 13 years ago # -
I have to say that it took me a while to appreciate it, but I now really like the Scottish Provident building in St Andrews Square. Shame no one seems able to do anything useful with it.
No-one a fan of the St James Centre, I take it? It has the power to effortlessly ruin almost every vista in Edinburgh (down North Bridge, up Leith Walk, along George Street, the city profile from Ferry Road, etc).
Posted 13 years ago # -
I don't mind it. There are much worse buildings in Edinburgh, even in Princes Street.
I rather like the gas tower..
Posted 13 years ago # -
One of the main problems with St James Centre isn't what it looks like - it's what it looks like when you put that particular structure in such a dominating position.
In isolation and out of context, it can be appreciated (should you want or be able to!).
And then there's the bitter taste of what you had to demolish to get it in there!
Posted 13 years ago # -
It's the prominence of the St James Centre that's the problem for me - it's completely out of scale with the surrounding area.
Posted 13 years ago # -
"A NEW bid has been launched to demolish one of the most striking industrial landmarks on Edinburgh's skyline."
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/National-Grid-bids-to-revamp.6788674.jp
Local councillor seems to sit on fence -
"
Forth councillor Cammy Day said: "There are people that do not care what happens to it and see it as a blight.
"I wonder how many of the people enjoying the new park agree and would rather see just another modern development.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Of course NG does. It's a privatised utility that sees a piece of land in terms of the amount of £££s that can be squeezed out of it (sorry, "the shareholder value that can be maximised").
Preserving a large patch of land because it has a historic industrial structure on it when it could be crammed full of tiny identikit houses doesn't sit well on the balance sheet.
What companies like NG or BG or whoever would do good to remember is that they inherited these assets from the nation and in that respect they should have more responsibility than just to their bottom line.
I don't see the point in keeping it if it is behind fencing and serving no useful purpose and has no public access - but it doesn't take a huge leap of the mind to think it could be turned into a beautiful public square or park. Ultimately might make the surrounding land more valuable for the developer.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Not withstanding what was knocked down to make way for it, and how it doesn't fit with and completely dominates its surroundings - this evening I happened to walk around New St Andrews House / St James Centre, and in the summer evening light it looked nice. I think the demolition netting and chicken wire helped to soften its profile somewhat. It's really not a bad piece of architecture at all. It's just the wrong building for the wrong place.
I mean it has this wacky chandelier!
Seeing as the place has been vacant for about 15 years, I wonder how I can get it for my flat? I lost count of the bulbs, but it must put out about 2kw of heat!
Posted 12 years ago # -
Today the sky was all washed out and acting like a giant mirror, making it hard to photograph things while pointing the camera in the general direction of up. But I did have a little tour of some of Sir Basil Spence's work around town anyway.
The developments are Laverockbank Crescent, Great Michael Rise / New Lane and 65 - 103 Canongate.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Appleton Tower.
nuff said
Posted 12 years ago # -
It's rather magnificent. If only they'd do some well needed maintenance to the cladding and generally spruce it up a bit.
Posted 12 years ago # -
@kaputnik
Um. Possibly your humour is too subtle for me, earth man, but - the way Appleton Tower currently looks now? That's *after* the cladding's had multiple rounds of expensive maintenance, and the building has generally had millions spent on it sprucing it up no end.
(And incidentally, I hear that last week's rain ran straight down the main interior support pillars and made ceilings collapse. Not a great building.)
Posted 12 years ago # -
K'nik have to admit your pics make even the St James centre look pretty good. But cc's comments on Appleton Tower too true.
I did like the crem though (as much as one can like a building that one would rather not have to visit).
Posted 12 years ago # -
Hadn't noticed those houses in Newhaven before. Wonder if any are still council owned?
"The balconies in the west block are angled to allow for optimum light from the south and sea views to the north."
http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search_item/index.php?service=RCAHMS&id=156632
Whether AT has any architectural merit as an object is highly debatable. Whether it was badly designed or poorly maintained (the two can be related) is another issue.
What is hard to deny is that it is a brutal symbol of a time when cities 'had' to be rebuilt to celebrate a post war era.
In London, Coventry, Sheffield, Glasgow etc. This was necessary due to heavy bombing. This was NOT the case in the South Side where the University and City Corporation conspired to produce a 'modern' Edinburgh.
Whatever the merits of individual buildings - AT, DHT GSQ, the Library etc - and whether the 'campus' in its present form (or if it had been completed) is 'good' is also open to question.
What cannot be denied is that a lot of perfectly serviceable buildings and streetscapes where lost and replaced with concrete and Plexiglas (Pill Centre) and that curious high speed dual-carriageway replaced a diagonal road through the site that became a car park for MANY years.
The conservative inertia of Edinburgh meant that a lot more of the grand plans (including the complete rebuilding of Princes Street) never happened.
This is not really about good or bad - more about appropriate. Another legacy 'we' suffer on a daily basis as result of a general post war British 'mood' is the continuing dominance of private motor vehicles in cities.
@SRD I like Mortonhall too. Only been inside once - seems to work well for its purpose.
Posted 12 years ago # -
I'm of the opinion that it's possible to like the style and lines of a building, regardless of the context of its surroundings, how nice what was pulled down to make way for it and how well maintained and/or functional the thing is. Even if it does look a lot better in the artist's impressions, Appleton Tower still has some merit and value of being a (for Edinburgh) reasonably rare and interesting example of a particular style and period. I'm sure the Cockburn association would disagree with me :)
And in defence of concrete, it can look nice and be an interesting material to construct and clad buildings with. More interesting than a lot of the anonymous mock-sandstone claddings that a lot of modern buildings around Edinburgh seem to get in an effort to "fit in".
Posted 12 years ago # -
k'nik - can't agree with your first assertion. impossible to separate building from context, history, etc. that is how so much damage done to our communities (over used word). one thing that struck me aout the wiki page arellcat linked to way back in other thread was how inseparable architecture and urban plan ning came across as being. if only like that in real life.
your point re faux cladding/style all too correct. powderhall gets my vote as most hideous development in e'burgh.
Posted 12 years ago # -
"Appleton Tower still has some merit and value of being a (for Edinburgh) reasonably rare and interesting example of a particular style and period."
That's a self-referencing justification.
On that basis you'd be happy if it was on MMW or next to the Castle(?)
I like the Scottish Widows complex at Dalkeith Road - many people don't.
It replaced a quite spectacular confection which some people must have regarded as vulgar when it was built. I'm sure others tried to stop it being demolished.
I suspect if it still existed there would be more pressure to 'repurpose' it.
A lot of 'town planning' is pretty random in practice in spite of structure plans, conservation areas etc.
It's not that long since Scottish and Newcastle wielded a lot of power - threatening moves to Newcastle if their latest expansion plans were thwarted. As the Depute Planning Director said at the time "they are a major employer". Of course S&N were using the same tactics in Newcastle. That was before the Internet - but not the telephone.
There will always be conflicts of commerce, development, progress, conservation, jobs, housing, tourism etc. etc. but a lot of it comes down to the egos of politicians, developers and architects - more so in London than here.
Edinburgh is also lucky not to have been bombed flat, was largely run by old fashioned conservatives (the dominant party was the Progressives!)
It was also fortunate to have a clutch of politicians in the 70s who shared the concerns of people - particularly in areas around The Meadows - who didn't want to remain under the threat of the CDA (Comprehensive Development Area) which planned for a massive expansion of developments by the University and the Hospital - plus a new road system.
One down side is that the main hospital is at Little France.
There are no perfect answers. Optimum is an aspiration.
Posted 12 years ago # -
or next to the Castle
I like Argyle House. That's next to the castle! Lauriston House, less so, but we are no longer inflicted with that.
What I was getting at is that even if you had knocked down the Castle to build Appleton Tower, it would still be the same building, still look the same and still hold the same visual appeal as a piece of the architect/designer's art. Don't get me wrong, I agree that (central) Edinburgh was very lucky to escape some of the worst excesses of 1950s-1970s town planning. But we've also been left with some good examples - like the Spence buildings at Great Michael Rise.
I also like the (also Spence) Scottish Widows building. It is strikingly modern and yet the shape and colour of the hexagons is in my opinion quite sympathetic with its backdrop (of reddy/brown basalt hexagons). Is it any less so than that ridiculous mock-gothic Victorian pile think that it replaced? And it is certainly better and a lot more interesting than a lot of the insipid newer development around town (the sort favoured by budget hotels and private student halls of residents).
There are no perfect answers. Optimum is an aspiration.
Very true. One man's Appleton Tower is another man's North British Hotel.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Alas. Referring back to the thread title - cherish it or it will be gone one day.
And gone it is. Someone has let them demolish Balfour Stewart House (former Distillers Company, United Distillers then Scottish & Newcastle corporate HQ). This is despite the report recommending that the application be refused and despite support from Historic Scotland and some eminent architects. Under 30 years old, by one of Scotland's foremost modern architecture practices (RMJM)and (I quote Historic Scotland) "an important office building design heralding new architectural ideals of the burgeoning Post-Modern period of the early 1980’s in Scotland... It is thus linked to a national revival...
Buildings of this type and quality are few in Scotland at this period, and United Distillers arguably represents the best of its kind".Oh and it was in a conservation area too.
The cleared site is for sale. Being in the area it is, my money is on some "exclusive" penthousey type flat development going in.
Posted 12 years ago # -
Seems no-one wanted it -
http://www.balfourstewarthouse.com
"
Archial have secured planning permission for a £35m redevelopment of Balfour Stewart House, Edinburgh, to provide 72 homes and 56 flats complete with underground parking."
http://www.urbanrealm.com/news/1843/Archials_demolition_of_Balfour_Stewart_House_approved.html
Posted 12 years ago #
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