Could do with some better cyclepaths too!
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Expansion-of-Fort-Kinnaird-site.6588174.jp
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Developers pledge to "improve the pedestrian link"
(31 posts)-
Posted 13 years ago #
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Huzzah! That road is completely impassable at the best of times, so I can only welcome a scheme which would increase its size by 1/3...
Posted 13 years ago # -
Great. More reason than ever not to visit Niddrie Colliery*.
*My campaign to call things by their traditional names rather than something a planner made up starts here.
Posted 13 years ago # -
"My campaign to call things by their traditional names"
Good idea, though you probably mean Newcraighall.
http://www.henniker.org.uk/html/_klondyke.htm
Niddrie Brickworks (across the road) is 'retail park' too.
I think they should have kept the chimney.
Posted 13 years ago # -
though you probably mean Newcraighall
I definitely meant Niddrie :) "Newcraighall" colliery was formed around 2 of the shafts (I've not worked out which numbers yet - there's at least 14) sunk by the Niddrie and Benhar Colliery Co. There were a number of pits known as "Niddrie No. x" in the vicinity. The name Newcraighall came later I believe, as modern collieries were formed around pairs of shafts as regulations and industrial practice changed.
Well, that's my limited understanding of proceedings anyway. Online records are patchy at best.
Agree on the Chimney.
Posted 13 years ago # -
"I definitely meant Niddrie"
Seems reasonable. There were a lot more pits with no lasting 'memory'.
"Agree on the Chimney".
Well they were 'made' to keep the one at Haymarket. Edinburgh doesn't seem too keen on remembering its industrial past.
There's relatively little evidence of the 80+ mills along the WoL.
Posted 13 years ago # -
Edinburgh doesn't seem too keen on remembering its industrial past
Very true. Although as mentioned before they've kindly left the Fountain Brewery standing as a rather sad monument. If it weren't for a crest one one of the buildings on Gimore Park, one would never know that the North British Rubber Mill had stood there for a long period before the brewery
Posted 13 years ago # -
"ONE of the most striking landmarks on the Capital's skyline is set to finally disappear"
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Granton-gasholder-set-for-demolition.6615459.jp
TIE
Posted 13 years ago # -
chdot: "Well they were 'made' to keep the one at Haymarket. Edinburgh doesn't seem too keen on remembering its industrial past"
Payment of a proportion of the cost of inspection and maintenance of that chimney is a condition of ownership of the flats beneath the chimney. Or so I was told by an ERC time-trialist who lives there.Posted 13 years ago # -
If it weren't for a crest one one of the buildings on Gimore Park...
That'll be this one, then? :)
(minor history)There's relatively little evidence of the 80+ mills along the WoL.
I've been trying to document some of the remnants, like Woodhall, and Kinleith pumping house. The lade and culvert west of Kinleith will probably go soon too.
Last time I visited
Fort KinnairdNiddrie Collieries (NE, near New Craighall, not the extant SW, near Niddrie House) I didn't see a whole lot of bicycle parking facilities. And I think only a confident cyclist would attempt the mass of roundabouts under the A1.Posted 13 years ago # -
Arrelcat: "And I think only a confident cyclist would attempt the mass of roundabouts under the A1. "
I had my worst ever run in with a motorist there when he took exception to my primary position and tried to run me into road-works before veering into me, jamming on his brakes leaving his car and threatening to kill me if he ever saw me again. So I don't tend to cycle through there much these days.Posted 13 years ago # -
From Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/GdnEdinburgh/status/2328744496734208)
"
Plan to demolish Granton gas holding tower has been refused by Edinburgh councillors.
"
Posted 13 years ago # -
That'll be this one, then? :) Exactly that one. I can't seem to find my own shot of the same
There's relatively little evidence of the 80+ mills along the WoL
Nor the papermills along the North Esk (well, apart from the big white (redbrick) elephant up at Pomathorn.
In the spirit of Anth's 7 hills ride maybe there needs to be a 7 wonders of industrial Edinburgh route? It would need to encompass papermills, breweries, printers, railways... North British Rubber we've already covered. What have I missed? Maldevic electric cars? Henry Robb's shipbuilders? Bruce Peebles electricals? Does coal count as that was more concentrated in Midlothian? Thought required...
Posted 13 years ago # -
"Edinburgh's post-war architecture should be cherished"
Posted 13 years ago # -
"In the spirit of Anth's 7 hills ride maybe there needs to be a 7 wonders of industrial Edinburgh route?"
ABSOLUTELY!
Think it should include MidL - esp. Bilston Glen viaduct.
Could easily do a 'trail' with all the Lothians just on coal and oil (shale).
Posted 13 years ago # -
(Moved to the new thread)
Industrial heritage trails - http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1676
Posted 13 years ago # -
Good idea, though you probably mean Newcraighall.
@chdot. Turns out you were right and I was wrong! I've finally found a map with conclusive proof that Newcraighall Colliery was sunk as Newcraighall Nos. 1, 2 & 3 shafts, and not part of the Niddrie complex (which at that time had reached up to No. 13).
I doff my cap / helmet to you!
Posted 13 years ago # -
"£30m mall expansion plan is 'vote of confidence' in city"
"
James Cooksey from the Crown Estate, partners in the joint venture, said: "These proposals will reinforce the attractiveness of Edinburgh's premier shopping park." The exhibition takes place on Tuesday from 10am to 7pm in a temporary building in the centre of the park.An earlier attempt to hold the display was cancelled because of heavy snowfall.
"http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/30m-mall-expansion-plan-is.6681498.jp
Posted 13 years ago # -
Fort Kinnaird (The Fort, Kinnaird Park, Craig Park etc) represents one of the biggest failures of local and regional planning in the east of Scotland. It paved the way for other out-of-town developments such as Straiton, The Gyle and Ocean Terminal. These, along with the development of a regional centre in Livingston, have slowly hollowed out the retail heart of Edinburgh and massively increased the reliance on the car for shopping trips in the Lothians.
I cycled past Fort Kinnaird earlier in the week for the first time in years - it is a massively hostile environment for cyclists and pedestrians. The very nature of such developments means they can never be made fit for access by bike or foot as they are too remote from major population centres and reliant on car traffic from huge hinterlands to sustin the businesses located there.
These places do not create jobs - they destroy them by decimating local businesses, the very places easily accessible by foot and bike. If these plans are approved, it surely shows the Council are not interested in creating a cycle friendly city.
This proposed development is not a vote of confidence in Edinburgh, but a further blow to the vitality of the centre and visions for a sustainable transport future.
How would I do things? Mixed use developments on brownfield sites, e.g. innovative re-use of upper floors in Princes Street to create vertical malls that are common in asian cities, could be one answer. High quality development focussed on public transport nodes, e.g. the old Haymarket goods-yard, is an obvious no-brainer. I could go on, as this is something I feel pretty passionately about, but I'll leave it there.
City of Edinburgh Council - please demand better from developers. Call their bluff, if they think there is a good enough return in a high quality development then they will invest the money. If they are only interested in quick buck out-of-town schemes then tell them to take a hike as Edinburgh expects better.
Posted 13 years ago # -
"Edinburgh expects better"
That'll be the people who live/work here who have different aspirations/expectations/motivations than many developers/officials (who often act as though 'there is no alternative')/politicians who seem to like glitz/monuments/development at any price/etc.
"These places do not create jobs - they destroy them by decimating local businesses, the very places easily accessible by foot and bike."
So true - but that side is never spun.
GOOD news 'X supermarket will create y new jobs', er that's it...
Posted 13 years ago # -
I like the idea of an industrial heritage tour: maybe it should include fresh wounds such as the HP plant at Queensferry as well as old scars like the Parsons Peebles and the St. Stephens printing works.
Posted 13 years ago # -
I agree with Morningsider about Niddrey Colliery being hostile for anything but cars, The shops are so large and spread out that i bet many people will use thier car to park at one side, go to one shop, and then drive across the park to the next. There are 0 dropped curbs too, just cut-through for zebra crossings. Bike parking was fine for the number of people using it (me and someone who works there).
Posted 13 years ago # -
"
Rivals wage war on plans for bigger Fort KinnairdThe plans include creating improved access for pedestrians and cyclists and adding new mezzanine areas for existing stores. If approved, the expansion would create up to 400 new jobs, and would be expected to create an additional turnover of up to £22 million a year.
But the plans have attracted a storm of protest from city centre retailers including John Lewis and the St James Centre, which fear that more trade will be taken away from the central Edinburgh.
"
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Rivals-wage-war-on-plans.6841354.jp
Posted 12 years ago # -
Ok, resurrect an ancient thread...
kaputnik - do you know where Niddrie No. 7 was? Can't find it on any of the maps...
(also to add I often cycle to the Fort, pretty accessible off the Innocent)
Posted 9 years ago # -
Always happy to resurrect some long-forgotten chat on industrial heritage.
In answer to your question Wangi, from what I can guess, No. 7 was an incline i.e. a drift, that was located along with Nos. 8 and 12. This is referenced in several locations on this page referring to a fire at the pit.
Given that I know from the maps where 8 and 12 were, can make a reasonable guess that No. 7 was in the piece of waste ground between The Wisp and the southwest corner of Fort Kinnaird. It may be that No. 7 was abandoned after the fire and so missed the Ordnance Survey visit, No. 13 later appears in the same location so I guess was maybe a replacement for No. 7.
I've got Nos. 7 - 15 pits worked out, but no further forward on 1 - 6!
Posted 9 years ago # -
@Kaputnik - it appears you want a map from between the 1850s and 1890s, although I don't know when the pit was opened, as the Niddrie Collieries don't appear until the latter maps.
Teaching you to suck eggs, I guess, but there are disused shafts marked on the 1890s maps, two halfway between Niddrie Junction (West) and the burn to the north. Another is south of Portobello Cemetary, across the railway.
Even in the 1850s there are old coal pits marked just east of Niddry Quarry (sic).
There's also an old colliery marked east of New Craighall and (at least) five old shafts associated with it.
I don't know if the numbering scheme would have included these - potentially the New Craighall colliery was considered separately.
Oddly enough the National Library (public) and Digimap (academic license required) appear to have different maps, so "mining" both may be of interest.
Robert
Posted 9 years ago # -
@Roibeard yes have clocked those old shafts and notes of pits as you observe. There was no set scheme for naming pits, although generally the name of a nearby farmstead was used. Niddrie of course ended up having 15 shafts, spread widely around but named after the original site as they were all tapping into the same workings.
New Craighall was not linked in with Niddrie, despite the proximity, and worked deeper seams to the north, heading out under the Forth.
There appears to have been two distinct collieries east of New Craighall. I've never uncovered a name for them, but one might imagine they could have been Stoneyhill and Mucklets, given the nearby farmstead names.
Niddrie (including the junctions, quarry, big house, mill etc.) is spelled "Niddry" in the 1854 OS map. It is of the modern spelling by 1890s but is still "Niddry" in a Bartholemew (i.e. local) map of 1917.
Niddrie fell outwith the burgh boundaries of Edinburgh, Dalkeith, Portobello and Musselburgh so is absent from the more useful large scale town plans. The smaller scale maps don't record as much details naming things like coal pits. Certainly not in a systematic and consistent way.
Posted 9 years ago # -
Forgot to say - thanks.
What you're thinking was Stoneyhill would have been Clayknowes pit.
Can't add anything else to what you already know!
Posted 9 years ago # -
'Getting here by bike' now links to CycleStreets journey planner!
http://www.fortkinnaird.com/dialogue-reveal/nojs/location
(After a suggestion by a CCEer - not me)
They also got this in an email -
"
PS It has also been brought to our attention that we need to review the width of our speed ramps to accommodate cyclists to cycle around them so this is something we will be doing shortly.
"
Is there any cycle parking though?
http://www.opencyclemap.org/?layers=00B00&zoom=17&lat=55.93424&lon=-3.10198
Posted 7 years ago #
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