CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Debate!

Does Lothian Buses go where we want to travel?

(93 posts)

No tags yet.


  1. ih
    Member

    This post/question is linked to the Roseburn issue.

    At the evening rush hour there is a stream of single occupancy cars coming from the West and turning into Russell Road. Where are they going? Must be somewhere in the Southside. Then, looking at an LB route map, where are the services to take people from the south of Edinburgh to employment centres in the west? There aren't any. They all go to the centre where you are jostling with every other bus, you have to change bus and slowly make your way along the A8. No wonder that if you have a car that you've paid "road tax" and insurance for, you will use it.

    Is it time to have a thoroughgoing analysis of LB routes to see if they can't be made more attractive to the commuter?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    "Is it time to have a thoroughgoing analysis of LB routes to see if they can't be made more attractive to the commuter?"

    You'd think so...

    Though part of the problem is that many journeys don't start from places where LB operates.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  3. gembo
    Member

    Lot of roseburn traffic s west Lothian or Fife commuters. Roseburn quiet lady Xmas when bridge closed

    Posted 7 years ago #
  4. Rosie
    Member

    @ih Agree. There are odd holes in Lothian Buses' services. Dumbiedykes is very poorly served, as is Marchmont.

    Dormitory "towns" like Ratho are poorly served by buses and Kirkliston and South Queensferry don't get an LB service at all.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  5. crowriver
    Member

    "Then, looking at an LB route map, where are the services to take people from the south of Edinburgh to employment centres in the west? There aren't any. "

    Well that's not true.

    18, 45 both travel the south/south west of Edinburgh and go to Edinburgh Park/Gyle and Riccarton respectively. If you are living further north east, e.g.. Newington/St Leonard, Craigmillar/Niddries you can catch the 2. If you're south east Edinburgh there's the 18 again.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  6. Klaxon
    Member

    With a 90 minute travel window on a 'single' the LB network could be reshaped with proper interchanging facilities rather than expecting through routes from and to everywhere (via Princes St anyway)

    Posted 7 years ago #
  7. crowriver
    Member

    "Dumbiedykes is very poorly served, as is Marchmont."

    It depends what level of service you expect. Marchmont has 5, 24, 41, 42, 67. Walk a short distance west to Bruntsfield or east to Newington and there are buses galore. So really I think it's wide of the mark to say "poorly served". Dumbiedykes has 6 on Holyrood Road, and 35 a short walk away on Royal Mile. Not far to walk to the Bridges where there are again buses galore.

    It's really not that bad unless you expect buses outside your doorstep to every possible location in the city. In which case, hire a taxi or.....cycle,.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  8. Rosie
    Member

    @crowriver The walk up to the Bridges from Dumbiedykes is very steep. No fun for old folk or pushing a buggy.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  9. crowriver
    Member

    That's true, but they can catch the 6 or 35 and change to another service?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  10. algo
    Member

    I too am a tad surprised to hear the opinion that Marchmont is poorly served.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  11. Rosie
    Member

    @crowriver No doubt but that is cumbersome, as if it was miles out instead of closish to the city centre. Those buses aren't very frequent. Also it's densely residential and deprived.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  12. Frenchy
    Member

    With a 90 minute travel window on a 'single' the LB network could be reshaped with proper interchanging facilities rather than expecting through routes from and to everywhere (via Princes St anyway)

    This would be fantastic.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    "With a 90 minute travel window on a 'single'"

    Or just Oyster style 'max fare not dependent on time/distance (apart from number of zones)/no. of changes'.

    LB already uses a zone system in East Lothian.

    I remember when Edinburgh had fare stages - minimum fare could take you just to the next stop!

    Posted 7 years ago #
  14. ih
    Member

    I agree that the 90 minute window would do a huge amount to encourage bus use.

    The current service, which I accept is highly praised in parts, is kind of feast or famine. Some routes seem to have more than one service doing the same thing, and I've posted a couple of times that in places there are too many bus stops close together, but there are holes, and there are areas where you can't get anywhere near your desired destination on one bus.

    A serious route analysis, more circular routes rather than radial, and the transferable ticket would do wonders.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  15. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @ih

    Got stranded after going to the pub in Morningside on Friday. The 38 stops running at 20h00.

    Radial journeys in Edinburgh are flaky at best.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  16. gembo
    Member

    When I was a nipper I walked in the pentlands secure in the knowledge I only had to make it back to the terminus at the back of beyond (Balerno) and the bus would take me back to Edinburgh. Still there, only change being the Balerno bypass

    Posted 7 years ago #
  17. neddie
    Member

    There should be a service running round the bypass stopping at all the out-of-town retail & business parks, and all the park & rides.

    Connections to radial services would take you almost anywhere, and no Princes St involved.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  18. crowriver
    Member

    "No doubt but that is cumbersome, as if it was miles out instead of closish to the city centre. Those buses aren't very frequent. Also it's densely residential and deprived."

    Well the point is Dumbiedykes is very central. Most people are able to walk to the Bridges/North Bridge, and catch a bus there. The elderly or infirm can get the 6, or a little bit further away on the Royal Mile, the 35, which will take them all the way to Edinburgh airport (eventually) via South Gyle, or the other way, Ocean Terminal via Easter Road. Plenty of places on the 35 route where it's possible to change to a bus going somewhere else.

    The buses are certainly capable of being improved in Edinburgh, but compared to many other cities in the UK they are pretty good.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  19. daisydaisy
    Member

    Jan Gehl, the Danish architect agrees about the buses in his review of Princes St here: http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/download/237/edinburgh_revisited
    Well worth a read. If only the council would implement his suggestions.
    In doc 3 he describes the problem with the buses and in 4, very briefly some solutions.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  20. daisydaisy
    Member

    The 38 which is a circular route, avoiding the centre, is perfect for my home, work, friends allotment, and child's school. Unfortunately it doesn't run frequently enough. There should be more routes that don't involve Princes St.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  21. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Going off on a historical tangent, which is something I quite often do, I was reading only the other day that when Edinburgh Corporation Transport became Lothian Region Transport in 1975, they ran quite a number of "circle" services, which went around the city centre but not through it. As the name suggests, they ran in a circular manner, without a terminus at either end (although some were more of a figure of 8). There was an old joke about lost tourists who couldn't find "Circle" on their Edinburgh guide maps despite all the buses going there. The 1 and the 6 used to run as circles, one going one way and one going the other. At one point the 2 and 12 were also circular compliments.

    Anyway, sooner or later, LRT got a load of staff in at the top (including quite a few from Eastern Scottish / SMT) who didn't like circular routes and most of them were disposed of and the remnants retained as less important routes, with lighter service patterns and single deckers.

    A good part of the core of the current Lothian Buses route structure is basically just the old Edinburgh Corporation Tramways routes, but extended further out at either end to account for the growing city. Trams ran numbers 1 - 28 and 15 of these ran along Princes Street, with a further 3 I think taking George Street. When they got rid of the trams, there was a problem as the Corporation buses also ran numbers from 1 and up. So, when a tram service was replaced with a bus, it kept the number of the old tram route and 30 was added to the pre-existing bus route of the same number so that there were no conflicts. Not all the tram routes were directly replaced so sometimes there was no need to renumber the bus.

    When you compare the old tramways map with current bus route map, routes 4, 5, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16, 22, 23, 25, 26 and 27 are pretty faithful to the old tram routes they replaced, with little in the way of deviation in the centre of the city, but expanded further out at either end to serve the expansion of the city since the 1950s. Some of those tram routes were laid down in the 1880s, so we have a transport network that still owes a lot to Victorian planning, given it was original a cable-hauled system, one of these practicalities was running near the winding station at some point (which existed at Shrubhill, Tollcross, Henderson Row and Portobello).

    Posted 7 years ago #
  22. gembo
    Member

    @kaputnik, nice detail

    The old 32 now a 20? (Might have numbers wrong) still takes all day to go round from muirhouse wester hailes, oxgangs, Craigmillar, porty etc (may have some details wrong). Never that busy a bus but often had many dogs, greeting weans and occasionally Hearts Mandy

    Posted 7 years ago #
  23. Arellcat
    Moderator

    I remember the no.1 Circle buses. Never used them.

    The 21 was (is?) an almost circular northern route from the Gyle to Ferry Road to Porty to Craigmillar to the RIE, and the 18 is its southern counterpart, taking in Sighthill, Wester Hailes, Colinton, Captain's Road, Moredun and the RIE. Both take forever.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  24. neddie
    Member

    32 / 52 used to be a complete circle following the 'old' city bypass (now signed RR for bikes)

    At one point it was 32 in both directions, but when the terminus was built at Wester Hailes, it got confusing, as both directions pulled into the same terminus facing the same direction - hence the change to 32 / 52

    Posted 7 years ago #
  25. wingpig
    Member

    Presumably the main thing stopping LB doing anything too drastic about their through-the-middle problem is that they'd be inundated with variations on "but I bought a whole house because the #N goes directly from it to my work".

    Having only moved here twenty-two years ago from somewhere which only had one bus at the time I still haven't learnt many services up here. My only regular bus-using period was when I lived on St Patrick Square then Buccleuch Street when I had to be in Chesser by 08:00, so I occasionally have "oh, that's where it goes before/after that" moments when spotting 3, 3A or 33 buses further away.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  26. steveo
    Member

    I used to get the 1 from Drum Brae to Gorgie (well Chesser really) for work starting at 18:00 I had to leave at 16:50 to make sure I'd get there on time some days I had time to get my tea others I ran in the door shouting "stop the clock!" such was the reliability of the service. Coming home at 2200 by the time I walked round to Stenhouse it was touch and go whether it was late or had just gone early.

    Compare and contrast with the 26 into town every 25-45 seconds and a equally regular bus out to Gorgie but that route, whilst more reliable would have taken twice as long and twice as much.

    Its a bit better now I understand, as it starts at Clermiston rather than fighting along Queensferry road.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  27. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    When I moved here as a student we sat on a circular bus route for a whole Saturday as a way of spying out the city.

    I suppose these days you'd just send your smartphone controlled drone out or something.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  28. chdot
    Admin

    "I suppose these days you'd just send your smartphone controlled drone out or something."

    Google StreetView!

    Posted 7 years ago #
  29. wingpig
    Member

    Pre-StreetView, when I visited for my open day I walked from Waverley to the Hugh Robson Biochemistry Building up some lovely scenic stairs through some lovely scenic mizzle but we were coached thence to KB and I didn't immediately quite know where I'd been. There were some rubbish photocopied maps in the undergraduate bumf but I also had a 1970ish copy of an A-Z type thing my parents had used when they visited my mum's cousins when I was a baby, which didn't have Potterow on it but from which I was able to learn most of the bits I thought I'd need prior to moving up here, albeit without knowing how "Buccleuch" was pronounced. I bought a Bartholemew Streetfinder (from Menzies on Princes Street) on my second day here, though my copy was swapped/stolen by an Australian a flatmate allowed to crash in our spare room; their shabbier copy lacked all my markup. I've still never got round to equipping myself with a Lothian Buses paper route-map but if you can still get them I might get one for the children's room to go next to an old Spokes map.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  30. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    On my open day I walked from Waverley to KB to get a sense of the scale of Edinburgh. I still regard the Bridges/Minto Street as the principal axis of the city for that reason....

    Posted 7 years ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply »

You must log in to post.


Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin