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"End this deadly phone epidemic now"

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  1. chdot
    Admin

  2. chdot
    Admin

  3. neddie
    Member

    No different to drunk-driving. The penalties should be the same e.g. 1 year instant ban + possible prison / community service, even if no crash has taken place.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. paddyirish
    Member

    I think phone driving is worse than drunk driving (though there are varying degrees of the latter).

    The latter is impaired driving with slow reactions, however with the former the driver has made a conscious decision that something else (and so trivial) is more important than driving safely. To me that is more scary than the less extreme drunk driving.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. gibbo
    Member

    Phone use behind the wheel at 'epidemic proportions' because there is 'no fear of prosecution'

    Yep.

    It's just like that West Midland thread: they concluded the only way to significantly reduce close passes is if they prosecute close passes.

    The exact same conclusion applies here.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. gibbo
    Member

    @paddyirish

    "I think phone driving is worse than drunk driving"

    I was going to post the same thing. Then I thought I'm not sure if it is worse because, as you say, there are varying degrees of both offences.

    But if we're comparing someone one pint over the limit having delayed reactions, surely those reactions aren't going to be as delayed as those of a driver who isn't even looking at the road?

    So, yes, definitely more scary.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. nobrakes
    Member

    If it were up to me, it would be treated as a conscious decision to accept that you are happy with the possibility of killing someone and would therefore be prosecuted as such.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. Stickman
    Member

    Interesting that both papers chose to run this on the same day. Perhaps they've heard that it is going to be enforced more strictly or with higher penalties and want to claim victory as theirs. Good to see though and hope it pays off.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. jonty
    Member

    I think it's to do with the release of this survey:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37370828

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. Stickman
    Member

    Ah, hadn't read either article so I didn't realise it was connected to that.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. gibbo
    Member

    So the use has almost quadrupled? Jeez.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. slowcoach
    Member

    'phone driving is worse than drunk driving' was confirmed by TRL Report as long ago as 2002 "Driving performance under the influence of alcohol was significantly worse than normal driving, yet better than driving while using a phone. Drivers also reported that it was easier to drive drunk than to drive while using a phone. It is concluded that driving behaviour is impaired more during a phone conversation than by having a blood alcohol level at the UK legal limit (80mg / 100ml)."

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Edinburgh Sheriff Court heard yesterday that he provided a blood sample of 174 milligrams of alcohol in 100 millilitres of blood. Railway regulations stipulate a maximum reading of 20mg per 100ml.

    "

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/train-driver-was-nine-times-alcohol-limit-at-waverley-station-1-4231188

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. Min
    Member

    Drivers also reported that it was easier to drive drunk than to drive while using a phone.

    I wonder if drivers try to take more care knowing that they are drunk so that it mitigates the effect slightly?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. Rob
    Member

    "It is concluded that driving behaviour is impaired more during a phone conversation than by having a blood alcohol level at the UK legal limit (80mg / 100ml)."

    Does that also apply when using a hands-free kit? If the problem is being distracted by the conversation, I don't understand why hands-free is ok.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. neddie
    Member

    Some drunk drivers take more care and drive for example very slowly.

    Others try to drive normally to avoid detection. Worse still some will have a heightened sense of invincibility.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

    "I don't understand why hands-free is ok"

    http://www.nsc.org/learn/NSC-Initiatives/Pages/distracted-driving-hands-free-is-not-risk-free-infographic.aspx

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-48664/Why-hands-free-phones-safer-car.html

    With a phonecall drivers can stop talking/listening.

    With texting/browsing they are not looking at the road.

    I think it's the latter, rather than 'phoning', that accounts for the significant rise in 'phone use' AND IS THERFORE EVEN MORE DANGEROUS!

    Think it needs to be understood as screen use and dealt with severely.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. Min
    Member

    Agreed Chdot. The vast majority of drivers I see using their phones are staring/tapping at the screens and not actually making a phone call.

    Edd1eh - also agreed, I am just speculating why mobile use is even more dangerous than drunk driving. Drunk drivers may still be paying or attempting to pay attention to the road where as phone users usually aren't.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. ih
    Member

    "I don't understand why hands-free is ok"

    I suspect it has a lot to do with the evidential aspects of prosecution. So if someone is actually seen holding a device, it's easy. If someone is talking whilst driving, they could be on the phone, they could be talking to themselves (we all do it), could be talking to a passenger or the radio! Impossible to prove by itself, but the phone evidence can be taken into account if the driver is prosecuted for another reason, dangerous driving for example.

    The evidence does seem to show that hands-free are also distracting so efforts should be made (despite my last paragraph) to ban or at least reduce this behaviour too. H-f phoning more distracting than passenger conversation imo because you can ask a passenger to temporarily stop talking, but with a call this would appear to be more difficult.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. Roibeard
    Member

    H-f phoning more distracting than passenger conversation imo because you can ask a passenger to temporarily stop talking, but with a call this would appear to be more difficult.

    Not just in your opinion, but seems to be backed up by research - (adult) passengers self-censor and understand why the driver may have gone silent. Those on the other end of the phone may be still saying "Are you still there? Can you hear me?"

    Robert

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. wee folding bike
    Member

    Any research on touch screen dashboards? It looks like a bad idea because you can't feel where things are and have to look at them.

    Of course I've taken it a step further and have no working heating so that's a set of controls I can completely ignore and only the binnacle still has working lights so there is no point looking at the centre console at night.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. acsimpson
    Member

    I may be stepping out of line here but to my mind there are definite degrees of offence with both phone and alcohol usage. If you are using your phone while taking part in a stationary traffic jam or waiting for lights you are unlikely to kill anyone. At worst you may hold up the cars behind you but this isn't a safety concern.

    However as soon as you start to move, phone use definitely seems to trump (mild) inebriation. You may have your eyes off the road, only one hand available for the controls or be otherwise distracted while passing through a junction (IIRC the most dangerous place on the road). Even with a hands-free setup you can be distracted for a considerable amount of time if you are attempting to dial a number or look someone up in your phone.

    With drunk driving it's fair to assume that if you are drunk in stationary traffic then you have been and will be drunk in moving traffic. Is the same fair of mobile use?

    If you are penalising all phone use the same are you encouraging people to stop phone use all together or simply moving it to areas where it is harder to police (ie moving vehicles). Reading a text message at the lights in my mind doesn't worry an instant one year ban although would be considerably easier to spot and prosecute than updating facebook while cruising along a country road.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. paddyirish
    Member

    Another thought is when the offences happen. A Lot of DUI offences will be late at night with fewer potential victims around. Phone offences will be at any time.

    Again, even if there is a legal reasoning to the contrary, use of mobile phones while driving scares the bejaysus out of me and I'd be inclined to support a blanket ban.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. cb
    Member

    "passengers self-censor and understand why the driver may have gone silent. Those on the other end of the phone may be still saying "Are you still there? Can you hear me?"

    On the other hand, I do see an alarming number of drivers who seem to feel the need to turn their head 90 degrees to face their passenger when conversing.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. jonty
    Member

    I'd argue mobile phone use while stationary is a "gateway drug" to worse offences - I'm sure the driver last week who drifted into the cycle lane I was filtering down just as I approached would claim she "only uses her phone in traffic jams" and yet she could have quite easily knocked me off my bike.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. acsimpson
    Member

    "I'd argue mobile phone use while stationary is a "gateway drug" to worse offences"

    No doubt but then we don't penalise "petty" theft the same as house breaking for example.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. wee folding bike
    Member

    Saw a guy in Airdrie this afternoon who was using his phone, held at eye level, while stopped at the lights. He moved off with the phone still there.

    Allowing it when stationary would also complicate the law and allow escape for those who can afford the representation.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. paddyirish
    Member

    Seems the papers knew something was coming

    But still not enough...

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. Stickman
    Member

    Good article:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/17/driving-mentality-killed-lee-martin-phone-wheel-safety-campaigns

    The massive increase in physical power that getting behind the wheel confers seems similarly to boost egos. People feel impregnable in their cars, more in control, oblivious to the fact that these are machines that deliver injury and death every day. Sometimes people feel intensely that their car is a totally private space, a tiny peripatetic kingdom over which they rule.

    ...

    That’s the odd thing about public awareness campaigns. They often preach to the converted. People who already accept that it’s dangerous to drive and use a phone will listen. People who are used to telling themselves this doesn’t and shouldn’t apply to them, will not.

    Maybe drivers need a self-awareness campaign, telling them that anyone who feels a sense of invulnerable autonomy the minute they click their car door shut is a dangerous, self-deluding fool and general menace to society. In the meantime, the bereaved relatives of the victims will have to carry on drawing attention to this state of affairs, time and time again.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. nobrakes
    Member

    What I want to see is the police taking video evidence seriously. I would happily invest in a decent camera and send in footage of the numerous drivers I see every day texting or calling whilst driving if I thought they would be prosecuted.

    I've just got my first speeding ticket in 20 years for going a little bit over the speed limit on a long straight on an empty country road. Likely to get points and a fine. Not going to quibble because I broke the law (just). Seems ridiculous that I will get that whilst people get nothing for texting while driving every day. I imagine a world of 'vigilante' public (cyclists mainly) sending footage to the police in the knowledge that it will be taken seriously. Until then, this problem is only going to get worse.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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