CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

The West End is a Mess

(27 posts)
  • Started 7 years ago by I were right about that saddle
  • Latest reply from acsimpson

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  1. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I went to Haymarket to pick up some train tickets at lunchtime. It's a while since I worked in the West End so I wasn't too sure how you're meant to get from Lothian Road to the station. I guessed at a left turn into Rutland Square and that worked OK for an assertive cyclist like myself.

    What though are you meant to do in the opposite direction? I couldn't face the tram tracks and whatever nonsense goes with them and wound up walking the bike up Morrison Street.

    If I can't face the West End on a Sunday afternoon what is the cycle-curious commuter supposed to make of it?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  2. Fountainbridge
    Member

    Where were you coming from and how brave a cyclist are you?

    In theory down Lothian Road and get off your bike at junction with Princes Street. Walk round corner on to Shandwick Place and cycle along the road to Haymarket station and park bike in large cycle rack.

    In saying that you'll need to cycle within a gap of about 1.5m (?) between the kerb and tram rails. Also cycle along a stretch of West Maitland Street where nobody is really sure if cycles are allowed.

    Alternative route would be through Fountainbridge then down Springside and across Western Approach Road using crossing, then .....

    Posted 7 years ago #

  3. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    how brave a cyclist are you?

    Verging on berserk.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  4. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    In the opposite direction, the right turn into Torphichen St from W Maitland St isn't too bad compared to some of the other tram track-related manoeuvres that cyclists are expected to pull off, where the ability to levitate would be the minimum required for safety.

    None of which is going to encourage newly minted cyclists any time soon.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  5. paddyirish
    Member

    going East, head along West Maitland St and bear right at the lights (across tram lines). Straight on and up the b*&*(*d wee hill to the lights and left onto Morrison St.

    Going West, down Fountainbridge, right onto Grove St, ride down this in Primary (1 way) and rejoin Morrison St and head down that to Haymarket.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  6. Rosie
    Member

    @paddyirish - agree about the route & wee hill.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  7. wingpig
    Member

    If you miss the left turn into Rutland Square (where the bus lane yields to the inside non-bus lane, according to the paint) then your next official non-dismountative option (crossing the tracks twice) is Charlotte Square/West Register/Randolph/Melville/[Manor-or-Palmerston]/Torphichen/Morrison/jughandle. Hopefully the two-way cycle exemption (and removal of right-turn restriction) at the north end of Canning St will survive the east-west route-flap. Getting back from Haymarket your quickest bet would be to wait a year or so until they build the Roseburn-Canal route then wait at the canal for another year until the Canal-Meadows bit gets implemented.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  8. cc
    Member

    For a quiet route I'd walk the bike round from Haymarket to Dalry Road then cycle up Dalry Place (through the Dalry colonies) then Morrison Crescent, then over the West Approach Road at the cycle crossing, and continue along Melvin Walk and Gilmore Park to the canal.

    Then you have a choice, depending on which bit of Lothian Road you're aiming for. For the lower part, turn left along the canal and work your way through Scottish Widows then past the EICC and down past the Sheraton. For Tollcross, take the cut-through from the south bank of the canal to Lochrin Place or West Tollcross.

    Map.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  9. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    Yes it is. So much to sort out it's hard to know where to start. A proper right/left turn for Lothian Road/Shandwick Place is essential, although that is in the pipeline with the E-W route. Also, Morrison Street needs a contraflow and segregated bike lane each way. Grove Street needs a contra-flow, although that would remove precious parking...

    Posted 7 years ago #

  10. dougal
    Member

    I'm sure coming off the NEPN and being dumped at the Haymarket tram stop has given more than a few nervous souls a heart attack. Especially if they hope to get onto Dalry Road and disappear up through the colonies to the canal. The 'sensible' solution is dismounting and walking round the corner which is just a cop-out.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  11. chdot
    Admin

    "The 'sensible' solution is dismounting and walking round the corner which is just a cop-out."

    Yep.

    I'm sure you mean 'cop out that it exists as the optimum option for many people', not that pushing is the cop out!

    The whole infrastructure around Haymarket is not really designed for people - unless they are inside a vehicle.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  12. Fountainbridge
    Member

    "The 'sensible' solution is dismounting and walking round the corner which is just a cop-out."

    Did there used to be a cycle filter lane BT? (before trams)

    Posted 7 years ago #

  13. dougal
    Member

    I'm sure you mean 'cop out that it exists as the optimum option for many people', not that pushing is the cop out!

    Absolutely, it's my normal approach for that junction!

    Posted 7 years ago #

  14. nobrakes
    Member

    I've always thought it more fun to precariously squeeze along the gap between the platform and the track heading into town (haven't worked up the courage to try this on the recumbent, I think that's a guaranteed accident waiting to happen). You then have the choice of

    1) Being knocked into the tracks by someone on the platform swinging a bag or arm
    2) Cycling directly into pedestrians crossing the road to/from the station
    3) Cycling directly into the path of oncoming traffic by joining the bike lane past Starbucks on the wrong side of the road and heading towards Morrison street.

    Genius! Somebody was paid to design this.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  15. barnton-to-town
    Member

    To be fair, cycling east from Haymarket and wishing to access Lothian Road isn't an issue for a cyclist, even if there's no desire to dismount and walk any stretch.

    It's either a straightforward right turn over the tram lines at the light-controlled West Maitland Street/Torphicen Street junction (interestingly, a police car reckoned it was ok to roll beyond the ASL at about 09;20 this morning), or a straightforward right turn over the tram lines at the light-controlled Shandwick Place/Lothian Road.

    There's no need to approach the tram lines at anything less than 90 degrees, and it's a helluva lot more pleasant run than it used to be, post-changes to traffic access to accommodate the trams.

    There's also a shed-load of short walking opportunities if either of those junctions phase anyone.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  16. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    @barnton-to-town

    a straightforward illegal right turn over the tram lines at the light-controlled Shandwick Place/Lothian Road

    if you mean in the carriageway anyway

    Posted 7 years ago #

  17. jonty
    Member

    Yeah - not only is it illegal, but the road layout does not support it at all. Recipe for getting flattened by oncoming traffic or serious (and legitimate) hassle from the taxis and buses behind you while you wait to turn. Also, if you're doing a turn at 90 degrees to the tram lines, then that means you're turning from an inside lane across an outside lane to get there - an outside lane with trams in it no less.

    Unless you're planning on traversing that junction at 4am on a Sunday night when there's absolutely no traffic, I think I'd just get off and walk.

    Although I like the look of Canning St./WAR to cut the corner - I have no real knowledge of those backstreets at all, must investigate them sometime.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  18. Frenchy
    Member

    Am I right in thinking the original plan when they last redid that junction was for the pavement in front of The Huxley to be shared use. This would have allowed cyclists to turn left onto Shandwick Place fairly easily. Indeed, this is sometimes how I turn left there (if it's quiet, anyway).

    If so, does anyone know why it never came to fruition?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  19. jonty
    Member

    There seems to be a dropped kerb to facilitate this on the Lothian Road side at least. Does make me wonder if a painted-bikes-on-the-pavement solution like at the Mound was the plan.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  20. barnton-to-town
    Member

    Apologies, a poor assumption by me that the right turn from Shandwick Place to Lothian Rd is legal ... I have witnessed more than a few cyclists performing it but I've never actually looked to see if was ok (altho' Google maps seems to think it still is).

    At a nearby junction, I think it's valid to turn right into Shandwick Place from Queensferry Street, because there's no signage to say otherwise, but the layout doesn't really accommodate it very well. A few bus drivers have become extremely irritated behind me when I've been waiting to make the turn.

    Google maps, conversely, doesn't seem to think that that's a valid move.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  21. jonty
    Member

    Hrmm. Surely once you're there, Melville Street is a better option? Probably quicker too.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  22. crowriver
    Member

    Well it was a mess even fore the trams. I used to dread the Haymarket junction in the olden days BT. Now I try and avoid it completely unless it's 5am on a Sunday morning or similar...

    Posted 7 years ago #

  23. Frenchy
    Member

    There seems to be a dropped kerb to facilitate this on the Lothian Road side at least. Does make me wonder if a painted-bikes-on-the-pavement solution like at the Mound was the plan.

    From the council, in response to an FOI:

    You asked the following:

    Q1. Is cycling on this section of pavement currently legal?

    A1. No.

    Q2. Did the design plans for this junction include making the pavement 'Shared Use'?

    A2. Yes, however see below.

    Q3. If so, why are there no signs indicating that the pavement is for 'Shared Use'?

    A3. This section of footpath was proposed to be shared use to compensate for the banned left turn introduced as part of the tram project. The dropped kerbs were installed as part of other road layout changes to “future proof” the footway.

    However, the necessary legal orders to ‘re-determine’ the relevant section of footway to allow cycle use have not been progressed and there are no current proposals to undertake this work. This is because we have concerns about the interaction between cyclists and pedestrians in this very busy location. The dropped kerbs allow cyclists to safely dismount, walk around the left turn, and re-join the carriageway towards Shandwick Place.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  24. DaveC
    Member

    How big is the gap? Could you jump it?

    [joke]

    Posted 7 years ago #

  25. Fountainbridge
    Member

    the necessary legal orders to ‘re-determine’ the relevant section of footway to allow cycle use have
    been dropped as The Huxley asked if they could use the space for outdoor seating. As a council we always support local business. The loss of the cycle route is not considered to be an issue.

    The gap is about 5m.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  26. crowriver
    Member

    "As a council we always support local business."

    This will become even more the orthodoxy (if that's possible) if/when Frank Ross becomes council leader.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  27. acsimpson
    Member

    "As a council we always support local business.give local businesses what they ask for."

    FTFY

    Posted 7 years ago #

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