CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Pavement cyclists - where are they?

(48 posts)
  • Started 7 years ago by Stickman
  • Latest reply from Murun Buchstansangur

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  1. Stickman
    Member

    A colleague was complaining loudly about pavement cyclists today.

    Turns out that it was on the route between Fountainbridge and Morrison St (through the Scottish Widows building), so I pointed out that they were allowed to be there. He hadn't realised this, but then moved on to complain in general about people riding on pavements.

    Now, I may be biased and turn a blind eye to things, but where are all these pavement cyclists? Are there any particular hotspots for them? I can't say I've noticed hordes of them anywhere.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  2. crowriver
    Member

    Easter Road can be a bit of a hotspot. Frankly I can't blame them because the road is narrow, lots of junctions, numerous pinch points at traffic islands, and folk drive aggressively sometimes. I'm inured to this, but I understand why other cyclists prefer the (narrow) pavements.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  3. jdanielp
    Member

    You will routinely find me and others cycling along the pavement between the top of Hermiston House Road and the crossing area which provides access to the north gate of Heriot-Watt University campus. This is mostly due to the fact that traffic travelling along the A71 is often nose to tail or accelerating to/slowing down from 50mph

    Posted 7 years ago #

  4. jonty
    Member

    Leith Walk is a bit of a hotspot, for obvious reasons.

    I've seen it a fair bit in the Inverleith/Canonmills area - I think this is to do with it serving as part of two otherwise off-road routes (Water of Leith and NEPN to Inverleith Park and onwards) and so attracting folk who aren't cycling on the pavement. Particularly odd was one apparent family where both daughers had got off and pushed but dad-apparent insisted on staying on his bike and cycling no faster than them but getting significantly more in the way.

    I think there's plans afoot for better infrastructure on the Inverleith Terrace corridor - but the WoL link is likely to remain a one-way-street-defying guddle for the foreseeable future.

    Also Scotland Street (NCN route + close to off-road section + cobbles, I think.)

    It's almost as if it's an expression of latent demand for segregated infrastructure.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  5. Stickman
    Member

    Coming home this evening I realised that actually I'm a pavement cyclist every day when I cross Balgreen Road at the lights that were supposed to be a toucan.

    Something something motes something something beams.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  6. newtoit
    Member

    Between Fountainbridge and Lothian Road, to avoid Semple/Morrison Street seems to be quite popular - street should really have a contraflow.

    Lothian Street between Doctors and Bristo Square (also fairly obvious reasons). I also see it relatively frequently at the Forrest Road/Candlemaker Row junction - right turners trying to get out of Candlemaker row.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  7. ih
    Member

    Very good question @Stickman. At a recent Murrayfield CC meeting I was harangued afterwards by someone who claimed she had been confronted by 3 pavement cyclists in the previous week, one of whom knocked her down and the other two verbally abused her. I just do not believe this stuff. I would dearly like to see any figures on the phenomenon. I know that the number of people killed or seriously injured by motor vehicles on the pavement vastly exceeds the number killed or injured by bikes (the latter being a very, very small number).

    I do see pavement riders sometimes, but they are nearly always kids, or parents with kids, going pretty slowly and not presenting a hazard to anyone. Never seen the 'lycra clad' variety. Occasionally I see an anti-social youth on the pavement, going fast, but what can actually be done about them.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  8. Stickman
    Member

    It's almost as if it's an expression of latent demand for segregated infrastructure.

    Quite.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  9. drnoble
    Member

    On cobbled streets, like Thirlstane Road in Marchmont quite often see people going along the pavements, but never had a problem as a pedestrian as they tend to be going quite slowly.

    As a cyclist I quite often have issues with pedestrians not realising areas are shared use, even where they have white lines and bike symbols. North St Andrew Street being a particularly bad example. But I've never crashed into or shouted abuse at people, just pinged my bell and said "excuse me"

    Posted 7 years ago #

  10. Ed1
    Member

    In Livingston it's normal to cycle on the pavement even non shared use but think it part because road network so poor for cycling no asl the worst bit of in town duelling I have seen for cycling

    Posted 7 years ago #

  11. Rob
    Member

    "she had been confronted by 3 pavement cyclists in the previous week, one of whom knocked her down and the other two verbally abused her. I just do not believe this stuff"

    Even ignoring any question over who did the initial confronting (wouldn't want to victim blame), there's something odd about using these encounters to argue against pavement cycling in general.

    If, for example, you were verbally abused by 2 pedestrians and knocked over by a 3rd, you wouldn't start shouting for pedestrians to be banned from the pavement. What is it about cycling which makes people overlook verbal and physical abuse to focus solely on the transport mode of the abuser?

    I know at least 1 cyclist uses the pavement along Fillyside Road to access the new traffic island onto Portobello->Leith route. I couldn't possibly comment on how I know this but I'd imagine it is to avoid a dodgy right/left up a kerb on a very busy road.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  12. gembo
    Member

    If there was decent segregated infrastructure, pavement cycling would not be an issue, as we all know

    Posted 7 years ago #

  13. Mandopicker101
    Member

    Not to sound like a Chipwrapper reader, but...

    I've almost been taken out by people on BSOs and folks in lycra while crossing the pedestrian bridge at Millhill in Musselburgh. Despite a big blue sign asking cyclists to dismount.

    I've also had more than a few close passes when coming through the pend from Kerr's Wynd through to the High Street (down beside the old Musselburgh Arms hotel). Again, a mix of teens on full-sus BSOs and people riding pretty high end MTBs and road bikes. Again, big sign asking cyclists to dismount. All-time classic was a guy who bombed it through the pend, hit disc-brakes when he came to the kerb, then rode on up the pavement past the newsagents and then skirted the Indian takeaway, dodging various people.

    The footbridge adjacent to the Electric Bridge is shared use but signs request cyclists to give way. This is my route to/from work 5 days a week and has been for the past two years. In my experience, cyclists rarely give way. One guy seemed downright annoyed when I dismounted as there were parent peds and mini-peds walking across the bridge.

    'You're allowed to ride on the bridge you know' he said rather petuantly. I simply pointed to the peds.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  14. Frenchy
    Member

    There are "CYCLISTS DISMOUNT" signs on the bridge beside the Electric Bridge too, aren't there?

    I don't generally dismount there (although doing so is probably easier overall, given the chicanes...), but I'll absolutely give way to pedestrians.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  15. stiltskin
    Member

    No, it says Give Way, not dismount. I suspect this issue is partly a confirmation bias thing. I probably don't notice pavement cyclists because they don't bother me unless they are riding like maniacs. On the other hand, I suspect most car drivers don't notice cars driving into ASL's. Same reason.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  16. piosad
    Member

    Having visited Belfast recently for the first time after moving from there to here three years ago, I was *really* struck by the number of pavement cyclists there. It's an object lesson in how increased demand creates less than perfect supply – there's an increase in paint-on-the-road lanes all over the city centre, but the city centre is a complex warren of (main) one-way streets that the cycling provision does nothing about. But for the purposes of this thread the point of the anecdote is that for a city its size and modal share of bikes Edinburgh seems to have remarkably *few* pavement cyclists.

    (Oh and you do often see various short-cuts across the pavement taken at the King's Theatre junction to take advantage of the pedestrian phase – I do find it difficult to blame people for trying to mitigate the horror of this place)

    Posted 7 years ago #

  17. Mandopicker101
    Member

    The signs at Electric Bridge were once CYCLISTS DISMOUNT (my capitals) but there was a relaxation fairly recently.

    My other reason for dismounting is the chicanes - I saw a woman on a laden tourer (in the rain) go straight into one as a result of going too fast and having duff cantis. My swearing vocabulary was expanded considerably listening to her...

    Posted 7 years ago #

  18. sallyhinch
    Member

    I've told our council that if they want to build a network that really serves the needs of those cycling or who want to cycle, they should start by building segregated tracks where the most pavement cyclists are. It's the cycling equivalent of the pedestrian desire line

    Posted 7 years ago #

  19. wangi
    Member

    Seafield Rd toward Leith, after the shared use bit is a big cycling on pavement area. I'm assuming a lot who do it learnt to cycle in countries where it was allowed anyway, plus that's why they tend to cycle to the right too.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  20. acsimpson
    Member

    Maybury Road has a steady stream of pavement cyclists. Who can blame them as cars often come up the hill at 60 despite it being a 40 limit. I'll confess to being one of them in the uphill direction.

    It would be easy for the council to add segregated lanes to it and complete the link fro. The NCN 1 to the Gyle.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  21. davidsonsdave
    Member

    I know of one cyclist who uses the pavement on Silverknowes Road from the Golf Course to the Boardwalk Beach Club on a very regular basis. Some drivers use this shore route as a bypass to West Granton Road and drive 60mph (and beyond) on this 30mph road.

    Silverknowes Road is very wide and runs between NCN1 and the Cramond Foreshore. A segregated bike lane would link these up nicely and encourage families (and other people) to cycle down to the beach.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  22. chdot
    Admin

    "A segregated bike lane would link these up nicely and encourage families (and other people) to cycle down to the beach."

    Yep.

    CEC didn't even plan that as a Family Network route, even though it's well used and 'obvious'.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  23. mgj
    Member

    +1 for Thirlestane Road. I was working in my front garden yesterday and counted about 10 an hour, most going pretty slowly, but one or two pelting along. I've been struck as a pedestrian before, and also nearly hit as I wheeled my bike out my front gate.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  24. newtoit
    Member

    Reflecting, I've been known to do it in a few places:
    - Holyrood, cutting from the front of the parliament through the little passageway next to the car park entrance, to come out next to Dynamic Earth. It avoids the need to deal with the roundabouts in the park.

    - Pleasance: steep hill with cars very close having just accelerated to get through the lights. Not much fun on the road.
    - Kirk Brae: see above

    Posted 7 years ago #

  25. DaveC
    Member

    I imagine all these pavement cyclists are on Shared Use Paths (SUP, Copyright), where unless you know to look for the litle blue curcle sign, you'll just assume they are pavement cyclists.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  26. wingpig
    Member

    "Holyrood, cutting from the front of the parliament through the little passageway next to the car park entrance, to come out next to Dynamic Earth."

    The only time there were "NO CYCLING" or "DISMOUNT" signs on this bit was when the path was narrowed when they were adding the new entrance lobby. Even Cyclestreets will route you through there.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  27. DaveC
    Member

    CYCLISTS DISMOUNT?

    When I see a CAR DRIVERS GET OUT AND PUSH, then I'll take heed of these lazy signs.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  28. paddyirish
    Member

    I do it on MAybury Rd and at the minute from Ferrytoll to Inverkeithing High St ( a nasty bumpy gravelly path which can't be nice for road bikes...)., ignoring cyclist dismount signs.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  29. Mandopicker101
    Member

    Certainly for some 'Dismount' signs, I think there's a rationale for their existence.

    In my own immediate neighbourhood, the Dismount signs appear to be intended to avoid putting cyclists and peds in situations likely to result in collisions. The bridge at Millhill is well used by peds, mini-peds and elder-peds (often with canines).

    Then again, I can see some signs having little reasonable rationale for being there and in fact might be life-limiting to cyclists. Horses for courses?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  30. chdot
    Admin

    "nasty bumpy gravelly path which can't be nice for road bikes"

    Yeah I was a bit unimpressed when I came across this on Saturday. I came back on the road (but not much traffic).

    Posted 7 years ago #

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