CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Cramond Road North

(23 posts)

  1. NiallA
    Member

    I've recently started using this road a lot - taking my little one from home in Davidson's Mains to our childminder in Cramond, then reversing course to cycle in to work (and then the reverse process in the evening). Cramond Road North is the direct connection between the 2 areas, but is not a pleasant road to cycle on - down or uphill, essentially a "country" road, cars usually too fast and too close. I don't think I have had a single journey on it over the last fortnight that hasn't had at least one close pass or badly-timed overtake. There are alternative routes, but they almost double the distance I would have to cover in each direction (which comes with a time penalty on a regular commute, so...)

    I felt motivated to write to my 3 local councillors at the beginning of the week: no response as yet, but I have realised that I am not sure what could/ should be done to that road to make it safer. I wondered if anyone else knows the road and might have ideas about how it could be made more cycle-friendly? If I do have some conversations with LCs, it would be good to have some ideas to suggest.

    So far, I've thought about a Gogar Station Road-style makeover, turning it into a one-way route for cars (and making the other direction go via Barnton), building a two-way path down the edge of the golf course to the immediate west of the road behind the existing stone wall - all options with substantial downsides. There's an existing pavement on one side that perhaps could be broadened and made shared use, but that creates pedestrian conflict (although it's not heavily used). Perhaps speed cameras and/ or conventional traffic calming measures could be the way forward (although that's not always that well regarded by the cycle planning experts, is it?). Anyway, if anyone has ideas or comments, that would be much appreciated.

    Basically, all that is really needed is a magic "make drivers drive more sensibly" ray at either end, but in lieu of that...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  2. HankChief
    Member

    I share your pain and actively avoid it.

    Will it be changing to 20mph any time soon?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. Klaxon
    Member

    I would be inclined to suggest pavement widenening to good shared use standards appropriate. It works well on Seafield Rd which is also a low pedestrian / moderate cycle corridor.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

    My firm belief is that Cramond Road North is used by many people as a 'Queensferry Road bypass'

    To prove me right or wrong CEC should do a survey.

    If I'm right there should be measures to discourage through traffic.

    Closing Lauriston Farm Road might help.

    Road humps would certainly slow the traffic down.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  5. Frenchy
    Member

    Will it be changing to 20mph any time soon?

    Part of it will on 31 July 2017 - the northernmost section which has houses. But the "country" section, along with most of Cramond Road South is remaining 30 mph.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  6. Klaxon
    Member

    "30mph"

    Posted 8 years ago #
  7. NiallA
    Member

    Frenchy - yes, so essentially nothing to help there.

    Chdot - agree - a definite bypass effect. Too many cars head down to Cramond in the mornings, considering there really aren't any workplaces in the area (primary school, GP surgery, cafe and pub,....?). Most then shoot off along Gamekeepers Road, so likely heading up to Barnton and beyond ( cue Buzz Lightyear gag...).

    Klaxon - thanks. Looks like best option so far, and would itself be traffic calming (as road slightly narrower). What are the best options for getting bikes on and off a bi-directional path when they are heading In the direction on the wrong side of the road?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  8. himupstairs
    Member

    I know the road and the various other problem areas around there very well. It is definitely a route to the Barnton Junction.

    I live on one of the Silverknowes streets that unfortunately acts as a rat run for Lauriston Farm Road queues. The static queues and stream of rat runners are there every morning from 0730-0830, and from about 3-6pm every day!

    Cramond Road North/Barnton Gardens itself acts as a drag strip as people charge away from the Lauriston Farm Road queue, only to arrive at another queue down the hill. Dur

    As a related aside, is there any further news about illuminating the golf course path?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  9. Klaxon
    Member

    What are the best options for getting bikes on and off a bi-directional path

    Limited. Something in the style of Hermit's Croft would be required at each end. A run into Silverknowes Terr would be best for picking up the link to the NEPN

    Doing a bit of street view perusing there might not be enough space to reallocate on CRN - the car takes up most of the lane already. Seafield had an enormous centre reservation that could be taken so it's comparing apples to oranges. Before /After

    Posted 8 years ago #
  10. himupstairs
    Member

    Yes, there's very little room for an unpleasantly narrow pavement and the road as it is.

    On the Barnton Gardens stretch up the hill a slice of the adjacent fields could be borrowed until the road widens towards the top.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  11. barnton-to-town
    Member

    Firstly, 100% agree with comments to the effect that it's a rat-run to avoid Queensferry Rd. I'm not sure why; on the odd occasion I use the Q'ferry Rd either by bus or car during rush hour, it doesn't seem to suffer too much in the way of delays.

    A number of traffic reducing and/or calming measures are suggested for Cramond Rd South/North ... given that one or both those roads (particularly South) are almost perpetually a 'victim' of roadworks, I can't see any mor permanent method working!

    Reduced speed limits? Awesome ... if enforced. The digital speed checks, in place for maybe 10 yrs, on Whitehouse Rd and Cramond Rd are almost permanently flashing a warning that traffic is speeding ... and I've never yet seen any kind of police operation to pull up offenders.

    In the meantime ... coming down Barnton Avenue, between the golf courses ... and then through Cargilfield School immediately after the golf courses must be a reasonable option without losing too much time, and certainly safer?

    Cargilfield might not like it - but I don't think they can seriously object?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  12. cb
    Member

    Is it still possible or 'acceptable' to cut through Cargilfield School? Depending on the end destination in Cramond, going that way via the golf course path wouldn't be much further.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  13. himupstairs
    Member

    It's certainly possible, within term times at least - I do it regularly. It's the preferred route when cycling back to D Mains from the Cramond Inn.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  14. NiallA
    Member

    Klaxon,
    Maybe behind the wall to the right of the CRN image you posted? An off-road path that could connect to any more new build houses in that field, between the CRN/ Gamekeepers junction and the mini roundabout (which could then continue on via shared use footway). Plus we could shoot for the moon and continue the path in the other direction to connect to Cramond Primary via Gamekeepers Road.

    It would need lots of continuous cycle/ footway priority minor road crossings etc, but not impossible? Presumably the main issue would be purchasing the strip of land immediately behind the wall.

    The other end crossing might be tricky - it would probably have to be at the junction with Lauriston Farm Road, which is where there will be a 20mph/ 30 mph change next summer onwards... Maybe we actually need traffic lights there? (It is a bit of an awkward junction now anyway, and the traffic volume alone might justify it.)

    Does that sound like a half-way sensible plan?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  15. NiallA
    Member

    Forgot about Cargilfield, but as it's privately owned, there's presumably no right of way, so I wouldn't want to use it (they would be able to bring a case for trespassing?). Maybe the Council could negotiate a deal for cycle access and the school could spin it as a PR triumph!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  16. barnton-to-town
    Member

    @NiallA

    Land Reform Act applies, I think, unless there's exclusions for schools and such like.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  17. barnton-to-town
    Member

    @NiallA

    Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 section 6(1) (b) (iii)

    I guess you're right about Cargilfield being inaccessible to the general public (not because it's private as such, but because it's a school).

    Posted 8 years ago #
  18. NiallA
    Member

    From Guidance notes for the Scottish Outdoor Access Code (Part 2 Access Rights), section 5 reads:

    The main places where access rights do not apply are:
    • houses and gardens, and non-residential buildings and
    associated land;
    • land in which crops are growing;
    • land next to a school and used by the school;
    • sports or playing fields when these are in use and where the
    exercise of access rights would interfere with such use;
    • ...

    So to my mind that means Cargilfield is off-limits.

    Edit: sorry - crossed with barnton to town...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  19. himupstairs
    Member

    Cargilfield is ultimately off limits as a general route, yes. I wouldn't encourage people to use it frequently, but I will probably continue to use it occasionally (I also have a get-out being closely linked to a member of staff).

    As for Cramond Road North/South and Barnton Gardens, I do struggle to imagine anything ever happening that will improve the situation for cyclists, as gloomy as that sounds.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  20. gibbo
    Member

    "I wondered if anyone else knows the road"

    I've lived in Davidsons Mains for the last couple of years and I know the road as both a cyclist and a walker...

    ...And, using either of those forms of transport, it's an utterly hideous experience.

    Simplest improvement would be adding much-needed speed cameras.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  21. cb
    Member

    Has it still got the bus stops halfway down the road that no one has ever used, does ever use, or will ever use?

    I think they were only there to boost the number of fare stages back when that was a thing.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  22. himupstairs
    Member

    The stops might still be there, but I don't think there are any services that go down the road.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  23. NiallA
    Member

    Some of the stops have been removed in the last week or two: not sure which ones (if any) are left now.

    Posted 8 years ago #

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