CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

West Craigs Planning Application

(52 posts)
  • Started 8 years ago by acsimpson
  • Latest reply from acsimpson

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  1. acsimpson
    Member

    A neighbour notification has dropped through our door for the West Craigs development. Full details are here: 16/04738/PPP

    It includes a 56 page transport assessment which is mostly focussed on keeping private motor cars moving.

    This application is for the larger section of the site between Turnhouse Road and Craigs Road rather than Taylor Wimpey's site which is adjacent to Maybury Road. If anyone is looking (ie me tomorrow) for the comments on the Taylor Wimpey site the thread is here http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16270

    Posted 8 years ago #
  2. acsimpson
    Member

    There's one week left for comments on this application. It closes on the 18th of November.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. HankChief
    Member

    Another one for a different part of West Craigs...

    linkee

    16/05681/PPP - I can't open the docs on my phone, so can't see what this one is all about...

    Posted 7 years ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

    "I can't open the docs on my phone, so can't see what this one is all about"

    That's a pity!

    "

    I am currently assessing the implications of the planning application on the trunk road but will not be able to respond within the normal timescale for the reasons stated below. I should therefore be obliged if you would extend the consultation period until this process is completed.

    Reasons

    Transport Assessment requires to be audited

    Until the formal issue of a TR/NPA/2 this Notice must be taken as intent to respond recommending conditions relating to this application, or to refuse the application. On this basis the interest of the Transport Scotland, an agency of the Scottish Government, as a Statutory Body must be taken into account.

    John McDonald

    e-mail: development_management@transportscotland.gsi.gov.uk

    "

    http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/files/4A180CDC5028FE0221ED8733F4C98A4B/pdf/16_05681_PPP-TRANSPORT_SCOTLAND_INTERIM_RESPONSE-3486614.pdf

    Posted 7 years ago #
  5. acsimpson
    Member

    "The application site is bounded on the east by Maybury Road and on the north by
    Craigs Road and the application site frontage extends approximately 320m westwards from Maybury Road along Craigs Road.
    1.7 The application site therefore forms the eastern part of the site known as HSG19 as
    contained within the Edinburgh Local Development Plan - plan as modified, dated September 2016 (the LDP).
    "

    Posted 7 years ago #
  6. gembo
    Member

    Who owns this lAnd? Rose berry are trying to flog a lot of land all over west Edinburgh just how leading to multiple planning applications at the one time. There is no point in tracing back to the single source to parley as they are trying to avoid death duties I feel,, but that could be wrong and it is just a tactic to get some through?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  7. HankChief
    Member

    Drop in public consultation events

    Wed 18th Jan &
    Wed 22nd Feb

    2-7pm in the Marriott Hotel

    West Craigs Development by HankChief, on Flickr

    Posted 7 years ago #
  8. acsimpson
    Member

    That's quite a development. The residential development is outside the zones marked in the LDP although the Primary School is included. The Criagmount extension will probably be required although it will be interesting to see how much more of their playing fields they will loose as part of the development (Assuming it's not simply going to be built over the car park).

    I've assumed that the development of this field was always likely eventually but didn't expect it to start before the development of the adjacent LDP zones had completed.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  9. HankChief
    Member

    Drop in session today 2-7pm at the Marriott on Glasgow Road.

    See you there?

    Posted 7 years ago #
  10. acsimpson
    Member

    Thanks for the reminder. I'll need to get special permission to sneak out later than planned.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  11. HankChief
    Member

    It's not for all the West Craigs- a new block West of Bughtlin Roundabout, a new PS on West Craigs and an extension to Craigmount HS.

    Need to push for the Craigmount HS southern entrance to be changed from steps to a ramp.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  12. acsimpson
    Member

    Missed you by 30 seconds.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  13. acsimpson
    Member

    @Hankchief, I was waiting to cross the pedestrian crossing as you pulled out of the Marriott.

    I'm surprised how small the Craigmount extension is (just 4 classrooms). If you put the two buildings side by side you might struggle to see the difference. Given that I've been lead to believe it is already getting full and there will be a new 21 class primary school in it's catchment area I'm surprised they don't need more space.

    The housing application by their own admission is a bit of a chancers game. Basically they own the land and have nothing to loose by putting in an application. It seems that Murray's success has spurred on more people to see what they can get through the process.

    They were a bit vague about any cycling/walking provision other than to show the line of the main sewer which heads through the site and say that there will be a path along it. however it reaches the northern boundary at the edge of a field and they don't seem to have considered where people will go next.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  14. acsimpson
    Member

    Quick reminder that the second of drop in session is next Wednesday. If you are there then add a comment asking that the steps to access Craigmount from the south are replaced by a ramp.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  15. HankChief
    Member

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/280m-maybury-development-recommended-for-council-refusal-1-4419438

    But planning officials have urged councillors to reject the proposals – drawn up by West Craigs Ltd and Dunedin Canmore Housing Association – when they are put on the table on Wednesday.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  16. acsimpson
    Member

    Here is most of the content of the letter sent to people who commented on the application. It's quite long but I think the main points are that speculatively included greenbelt land, tried to get away without building the active travel links required of the site and wanted to avoid paying to improve the Craigs Road / Maybury Road junction: (I assume there is a missing "Not" in point 7)

    I am writing with regard to the above application to which you raised representations.

    The City of Edinburgh Council has now determined that the application be Refused in accordance with the particulars given in the application.The decision with any conditions, reasons and/or informatives can be found on the other side of this letter. Full details of the final scheme, including the report assessing the application, can be found on the Council website at http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/planning .

    The reason for the decision was
    The HSG19 site represents one of the largest housing allocations in the LDP and a significant westward expansion of the city, on land which formerly comprised green belt. It is therefore imperative that comprehensive masterplanning is undertaken to guide the long term development of the site. The masterplanning undertaken as part of this application is not sufficiently comprehensive and is contrary to the LDP Site Brief and Development Principles.

    This application cannot be supported due the inclusion of the area of the Edinburgh Green Belt (5.2 hectares) to the north of Craigs Road, the lack of clarity regarding the delivery of the pedestrian/footbridge from the HSG19 site to Edinburgh Gateway, the completeness of supporting information including the Environmental Statement and the current nature of the masterplan proposition. The application as submitted is not acceptable in principle and for this reason the Council has not requested the applicant to provide further information.

    It is therefore recommended that the application be refused.

    The refusal notice has the following points
    Reasons:-
    1. The proposal is contrary to Strategic Development Plan Policy 12 and Local Development Plan Policies Env 7, Env 10, Des 9 a) and c) and Hou 1 in that the proposed development of land to the north of Craigs Road has not been assessed through the LVIA, would undermine greenbelt objectives, the nature of the urban edge and setting of the special character of the city and the setting of the Cammo Park Estate recorded in the Inventory of Gardens and Designed Landscapes. No deficit in the maintenance of the five year housing land supply (as evidenced through the housing land audit) has been identified to justify incursion into the green belt, as per the requirements of Hou 1.

    2. The proposal is contrary to Local Development Plan Policies Des 1, Des 4, Des 9 c) and Env 10 in the proposals including information submitted as part of the LVIA have not demonstrated that development would conserve and enhance the landscape setting and special character of the city or include landscape improvements which would strengthen the green belt boundary.

    3. The proposal is contrary to Local Development Plan Policy Tra 10 in that the proposed development of an access road to link Craigs Road with the Bughtlin Roundabout could prejudice new road and network improvements including the implementation of LDP Proposal T17.

    4. The proposal is contrary to Local Development Plan Policy Des 2 a) in that extents of proposed development to the south of Craigs Road could compromise the effective development of adjacent land.

    5. The proposal is contrary to Local Development Plan Policies Del 1, Tra 8, Des

    7 b) c) and f) in that the proposals would fail to provide a pedestrian/cycle bridge link between the site and Edinburgh Gateway as per the location identified in the LDP, this also limiting the effective development of strategic pedestrian, cycle and green networks. Development identified in the vicinity of the LDP bridge location, immediately to the north, could compromise the development of the bridge and green corridor and thereby contrary to LDP Policy Des2 a).

    6. The proposal is contrary to Local Development Plan Policies Des 7 in that a comprehensive approach to the layout of buildings, car parking, open space and SUDS features, including surface water attenuation within the layout has not been demonstrated.

    7. The proposal is contrary to Local Development Plan Policy Env 21 in that it has not been fully demonstrated that the development would increase flood risk or be at risk of flooding itself.

    8. The proposal is contrary to Local Development Plan Policies Des 3, Env8 b) and Env 9 in that insufficient information has been provided in the Environmental Statement to assess the archaeological and historic value of West Craigs Farmhouse and Steading and West Craigs Farm Cottage or to how these buildings could be incorporated and enhanced through the design proposals.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  17. acsimpson
    Member

    Hankcheif's Cammo fields updated reminded me about this one too. The developers are, unsuprisingly, appealing the decision. Next week there is a Pre-examination meeting which they previously advised "...is being held purely to discuss the procedures and timescales that are to be followed. No discussion on the merits of the appeal will take place at this meeting."

    The latest update includes the agenda for the meeting which I have copied below, although it makes for pretty dry reading. I'll updated once the minutes are published.

    TOWN AND COUNTRY PLANNING (SCOTLAND) ACT 1997, AS AMENDED.
    Pre-Examination Meeting to be held at 14.00 on Thursday 5 October 2017 at
    Turnhouse Golf Clubhouse regarding proposed developments at Turnhouse
    Road, Edinburgh
    AGENDA
    1. Welcome, purpose of the meeting and introductions of the principal parties.
    2. The appeal process and application of The Town and Country Planning
    (Appeals) (Scotland) Regulations 2013.
    3. The reporters’ provisional assessment of the main issues to be addressed in
    their determination of the appeal and those requiring further procedure – likely to
    include the development plan, green belt, pedestrian/cycle bridge provision, master
    plan and design, supporting information and potential conditions/obligations.
    4. Parties’ views on the reporter’s suggestions.
    5. Participation of interested parties in further procedures as necessary:

     Further written submissions.
     Oral sessions.

    6. The hearing of evidence as necessary:

     Oral sessions

    7. Dates, location, likely duration of oral sessions.
    (The reporters wish to hold any oral sessions in December 2017 or January
    2018. They ask parties to attend the pre-examination meeting with details of
    their and their witnesses’ availability for that period. Turnhouse Golf
    Clubhouse may be an appropriate venue if available)
    8. Future procedures:

     Prior disclosure of cases
     Pre-session procedure
     Potential conditions
     Procedure notices
     Scope for agreed statements

    9. Other matters

     Daily programme during oral sessions.
     Site inspections.
     DPEA contact details.
     Note of meeting.
    10. Any other relevant matters.
    Trudi Craggs and Trevor Croft
    Reporters, Planning and Environmental Appeals Division
    25 September 2017

    Posted 7 years ago #
  18. HankChief
    Member

    @AC- (From Garden District experience) it's worth responding and saying you won't be attending next week's session but are keen to kept in the loop.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  19. acsimpson
    Member

    Their initial letter asked for permission to make contact via email so I have done that already. I might have to pick your brains on this one when the time is right. I'm especially keen to ensure they don't get away with using the Meadowfield farm bridge.

    For partly selfish reasons I'm also keen that the paths are completed before the first residents arrive. Not just selfish though I think it's vital that bad habits aren't allowed to form.

    Posted 7 years ago #
  20. HankChief
    Member

    Looks like this will go ahead

    "The reporters have decided that planning permission will be granted provided an agreement under Section 75 of the Town and Country Planning (Scotland) Act 1997 is reached between the planning authority and the appellant."

    https://www.dpea.scotland.gov.uk/CaseDetails.aspx?id=118131

    Posted 6 years ago #
  21. acsimpson
    Member

    The Notice of Intention is fairly dry reading and 26 pages long. It details the reporters rational and decisions. It also lists all the planning conditions and mentions obligations which will be put in place.
    The council and developers now have 16 weeks to do all the paperwork before a final planning notice is issued.

    One of the obligations will be the new active travel bridge over the railway which must be complete before the western part of the site is complete. It doesn't state how much is considered to be the western part though.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  22. HankChief
    Member

  23. chdot
    Admin

    Plans also include connections to a pedestrian/cycle bridge link to the Edinburgh Gateway Station and onward connection to the Gyle Shopping Centre, Edinburgh Park and International Business Gateway as well as a new 30m wide green network link from the proposed pedestrian/cycle bridge through the Maybury site to connect via Cammo Walk and Cammo Estate park.

    The West Craig decision comes as controversial proposals to build more than 1300 homes on green belt land surrounding the Capital by a former owner of Rangers Football Club have also been put in front Scottish ministers.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  24. chdot
    Admin

    “We’re hopeful that work could start on these much-needed new homes as early next year if approved, and that includes over 50 new affordable homes, as well as nearly 200 homes for sale. “We believe that this site is the most sustainable site outside the centre of Edinburgh with excellent links to the adjacent tramline, railway station and bus routes.

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/business/hundreds-of-family-homes-proposed-for-west-craigs-site-1-4750043

    Posted 6 years ago #
  25. acsimpson
    Member

    excellent links to the adjacent tramline, railway station and bus routes

    Unless they build a bridge over the railway line (which they aren't doing*) then calling the links to the tram and train excellent it stretching it a little. Calling them adjacent is just blatent fibbing. There is nothing excellent about the pavement on Maybury Road. Likewise pluralising bus routes is a bit imaginative.

    * The larger part of the West Craigs land will hopefully be doing it but that is unapproved so far.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

    A PLAN to build up to 250 homes on the Western edge of Edinburgh has been passed by the city council.

    A row erupted after councillors called on developers Taylor Wimpey Homes to investigate cycling infrastructure as part of the outline planning permission for the homes at West Craigs, to the west of Maybury Road.

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/plan-for-250-new-homes-at-west-craigs-given-green-light-1-4750857

    Posted 6 years ago #
  27. neddie
    Member

    As an integral part of our planning appeal “planning gain” package we have agreed to seek to deliver a new pedestrian / cycle footbridge over the railway west of Edinburgh Gateway

    "seek to deliver" ?

    What does that mean? Just waffle, or an actual requirement? One to keep an eye on...

    Posted 6 years ago #
  28. acsimpson
    Member

    @neddie, Where did you pull that quote from? I can't currently locate it.

    The way I understand it is that one of the conditions for the much larger part of West Craigs will be to build that bridge. The SG reporter has listed it as a clause which should be on their planning permission.

    Although the smaller Taylor Wimpey development may have made noises regarding the bridge and might even part fund it via their developer contributions it is not something they will be required to build as part of this development. If they are applying pressure for it to be built sooner rather than later it is presumably because they recognise it makes their site far more attractive.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  29. acsimpson
    Member

    I thought it must be about time for the planning notice to be issued for West Craigs. Sure enough it was but there is an update on the dpea site:

    *Update 17 August 2018* The reporters have agreed to an extension of time until 21 September 2018 to allow parties to reach agreement.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  30. HankChief
    Member

    @acs - I thought they had the green light? What are they waiting for?

    Posted 6 years ago #

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