CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Consultations Consultations Consultations

(565 posts)
  • Started 8 years ago by HankChief
  • Latest reply from Frenchy
  • This topic is sticky

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    I didn’t watch/listen to much of TEC, but it was clear CEC doesn’t have enough staff - though more to be recruited, partly as a result of bringing some stuff back in house having been let down by consultants’ - notably on the E/TROs that are having to be done again.

    At last Spokes public meeting AS said there were due to be ‘40 new school streets. I don’t know if I’m supposed to tell you’.

    According to TEC meeting it’s 39 BUT progress likely to be slow due to staff/process bottlenecks. This is being done by Road Safety, which seems to have a particularly heavy workload.

    Various references to (another) staff/structure reorganisation which may (or not) improve things (eventually).

    George Street is apparently £10m short - so delay or increase ‘contribution’ from AT budget.

    Etc.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. chdot
    Admin

    Anyone know how long it takes for webcasts to get uploaded?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. Frenchy
    Member

    Up now (8:30pm, for future reference): https://edinburgh.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/780603

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

    Yes

    Painful to scroll and get to where you want,

    1:14:00

    JGPS/Blackford Safe Routes

    Didn’t realise Jon Burke was appearing, IN PERSON!??

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. Morningsider
    Member

    So the Comiston Road and Greenbank-Meadows schemes are up for another review? What might that mean? Well, let's take Braid Road as an example of what happens after a series of reviews:

    1. Closed to all motorised vehicles at the Hermitage.
    *review*
    2. Opened one-way to motorised vehicles, segregated cycle lanes installed.
    *review*
    3. Opened two-way to motorised vehicles, segregated cycle lanes largely removed.
    *review*
    4. ???

    Feeling confident? As a reminder, the Greenbank-Meadows quiet route provides safe walking and cycling routes to:

    1. South Morningside Primary (main school)
    2. South Morningside Primary (Deanbank annex)
    3. Canaan Lane Primary
    4. St Peter's Primary
    5. Royal Blind School
    6. James Gillespie's Primary
    7. James Gillespie's High

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. shuggiet
    Member

    And largely to St.Thomas of Aquins, Boroughmuir and Heriot's, all of whom have catchments covering South Edinburgh.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    @Morningsider the Watson's bike bus from Fairmilehead uses the Comiston Road lanes

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

  9. pringlis
    Member

    @Morningsider: from talking to councillors in my role on the parent council at SMPS, the main "concern" is the rat running traffic that has come about as a direct result of Braid Road reopening. The junction at Braidburn Terrace is no longer safe, and drivers from Braid Road have now worked out how to zig-zag through the Quiet Route. The bottom of Midmar is backed up to the allotments most days. There's no admission, except from the Greens, that the solution is to close Braid Road again. Scott Arthur got close to that realisation in the meeting yesterday but drew back from it.

    What I suspect we'll see is that they'll try and fix the issue on Midmar and the zig-zagging by reopening Braid Avenue, and putting in segregated lengths the whole way down. It's wide enough to do that, and you could even do it on Woodburn Terrace if you turned the angled parking round. I believe Councillor Munro is discussing that with other ward councillors. That'd mean most traffic goes down Braid Avenue and uses the lights, but that cuts right through the heart of the Quiet Route. We might have segregation but it'd no longer be quiet, and junctions would still be unsafe. It also doesn't address the issue at the old mini roundabout at Braidburn Terrace. They could fix this all by closing Braid Road southbound...

    SMPS Parent Council will be pushing to maintain the Quiet Route and add new mitigations where appropriate, but we've never been able to take a position on Braid Road as we suspect a majority of parents want it kept open so we don't want to take a vote and have to adopt that as our official position.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. chdot
    Admin

    We now have more consensus than ever on Spaces for People ETROs:

    Lab, Lib & Con agree we should work with local residents to deliver the undiluted aims of the 4 most controversial schemes.

    Lab, Lib, Green, Con & SNP agree that all others continue as planned. (1/2)

    https://twitter.com/cllrscottarthur/status/1669597216112033792

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. Morningsider
    Member

    @pringlis - thanks, and for your work on the SMPS parent council.

    Very depressing approach from some of our local councillors. They don't seem to appreciate that the beauty of the quiet route is that it is...quiet. Also, their approach to dealing with congestion is simply "one more road should do it" - an approach that has never worked anywhere, ever.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. Arellcat
    Moderator

    The bottom of Midmar is backed up to the allotments most days.

    Is that the unintended consequence of the current traffic mitigations further upstream? Or has the number of vehicle movements increased in absolute terms? Before all of the interventions, neither Midmar nor Braid Road northbound were particularly heavily trafficked - but people living there were paying the price with noise and road danger on adjacent streets.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. neddie
    Member

    Before all of the interventions, neither Midmar nor Braid Road northbound were particularly heavily trafficked

    This isn't true

    Midmar has always been a massive rat-run and there have always been queues to get on to Cluny Gardens (with the exception of the time Braid Rd was fully closed), even pre-Covid

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. neddie
    Member

    drivers from Braid Road have now worked out how to zig-zag through the Quiet Route

    This is why you can't do an LTN in half-measures - you simply continue to get drivers spoiling everything, no modal shift, residents continuing to complain about rat-running "it's not working" and calls to rip-it-out or add speed-humps (which are expensive and don't work)

    Adding a couple of filters to Corstorphine and then calling it an "LTN" is disingenious at best, and will actually destroy significant political capital on the advantages of LTNs

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. Dave
    Member

    We lived near the observatory for years and years and our main way to get out of town was to cut up past the allotments FWIW

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

    Community involvement is at the heart of good urban design. Leaving it to technocrats alone will lead to failure.

    For example:

    https://twitter.com/cllrscottarthur/status/1669671335021228034

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. Arellcat
    Moderator

    This isn't true

    To be fair, I haven't used Braid Avenue/Midmar Avenue et al regularly for several years now, but I lived up the road from Braidburn Valley for very much longer. When travelling to Cameron Toll, or to visit family (who lived not far from Dave at the time), my main route was Midmar onto Cluny, because it was invariably quiet. Sometimes I had to wait behind as many as two cars. When coming home, I would choose between Midmar and Braid Ave, based on the aspect of the traffic lights at the crossroads.

    The busiest part of the journey in either direction was always the mini roundabout at Braid Road/Hermitage Drive.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  18. chdot
    Admin

    Video of yesterday seems to load/scroll fine now.

    https://edinburgh.public-i.tv/core/portal/webcast_interactive/780603

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. Stickman
    Member

    Didn’t realise Jon Burke was appearing, IN PERSON!??

    I was surprised by that as well!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  20. chdot
    Admin

    MY BOLD - in what way is this true?

    Highlighting the two Silverknowes schemes, he said: ”I remember being told that once these schemes are in place people get used to them, it'll be fine and people will accept them. That is simply not the case. In Silverknowes we still have the road closed down to the promenade that forces people to take a much longer diversion; it has not reduced traffic down to the promenade; and we also still have this solution-seeking-a-problem of the Silverknowes quiet route scheme, which few if any people use because it takes such a ridiculously complicated and convoluted route through the Silverknowes estate.

    Morningside Lib Dem councillor Neil Ross spoke about the Greenbank-Meadows Quiet Route, which he said he wanted to retain and improve. He said: “Local cyclists tell me they don't feel safe using the southern section of the route; local residents in the Braid estate tell me they don't feel safe walking and cycling in their streets because of the displacement of the through traffic.” And he said there were conerns about the Braid Road junction with Hermitage Drive and Comiston Road at the junction with Comiston Springs Avenue. “It makes sense that complicated controversial schemes should have a stand-alone basis so that they can develop potentially better, safer outcomes by trialling different solutions appropriate for each scheme.”

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburghs-spaces-for-people-four-most-controversial-schemes-will-be-looked-at-again-committee-agrees-4186926

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. chdot
    Admin

    Previously

    Blackford Safe Routes only became aware of this somewhat by accident when the Liberal Democrat councillor for the Morningside ward, Neil Ross, sent the designs round in a leaflet to local households, encouraging people to write to the Council requesting a public consultation. This was voted on and his motion to hold a consultation was rejected by the council on the 17th September by 32 to 25 with 1 abstention.

    https://pedalonparliament.org/liveable-neighbourhoods-returning-the-streets-to-the-people/

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. chdot
    Admin

    … death by 1000 consultations …

    https://twitter.com/finlaymcf/status/1670109964545798149?s=61

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

  24. chdot
    Admin

    Calling for early action…

    Important!!

    Respond by 9 July

    HERE-> http://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/cmp/

    There's an open-ended box at end of the online QA .. pick out some ideas from our detailed response

    -> http://www.spokes.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/2307-Spokes-re-ATAP-CMP-delivery-docs.pdf
    e.g. support the new policy of main-road seg cyclelanes, but ask for early action

    https://twitter.com/spokeslothian/status/1676276230901964807

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. Morningsider
    Member

    I have responded to so many, very similar, consultations that I can't remember whether I have already completed this one.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. SRD
    Moderator

    I feel like that very often. this one was new to me though!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. Frenchy
    Member

    I have responded to so many, very similar, consultations that I can't remember whether I have already completed this one.

    Complete early; complete often?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. neddie
    Member

    Complete early; complete often?

    Maybe, but usually one needs to hear from others via the CCE/Twitter-sphere before forming an opinion, and this often generates ideas as well. So in terms of quality, best to wait till almost the last week (as long as you don't then forget!)

    But yeah, also agree with Morningsider - there's just so many, it's hard to remember what you've done and haven't. I wonder how many cumulative man-hours the people of Edinburgh have wasted on this nonsense, instead of having politicians brave enough to DO. THE. RIGHT. THING. ?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. chdot
    Admin

    Final comment on CMP plans: As they stand, there’s no way they will reduce car mileage by 30% by 2030. We’ve had so many plans, consultations, proposals, trials, etc in the past five or six years: our key message is “put walking first; and just get on with it!”

    https://twitter.com/livingstreetsed/status/1676522116454182912?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. MediumDave
    Member

    Done.

    Not got great hopes for this TBH. Suspect we'll be being consulted on much the same in 2030.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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