CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Sheriffhall Roundabout consultation etc.

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    Mentioned a few times on the consultation thread, but deserves its own - esp as consultations today and tomorrow at the PnR (also online).

    "

    Transport Scotland is holding a public exhibition to present the emerging options at the Sheriffhall Park & Ride Terminal Building, A7 Old Dalkeith Road, Danderhall EH22 1FF on Tuesday 6 and Wednesday 7 December 2016

    "
    12 - 7

    http://www.transport.gov.scot/project/a720-sheriffhall-roundabout

    "

    Tony Kenmuir, chairman of Central Taxis, said it was Edinburgh’s worst roundabout and that drivers would be delighted to avoid it.

    He said: “It can be dreadful. We are round that end of the bypass a lot when going to the Royal Infirmary and there can be long hold-ups.

    "

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/plans-to-revamp-edinburgh-s-worst-roundabout-unveiled-1-4309840

    Posted 7 years ago #

  2. neddie
    Member

    RS2

    10:13 AM on 06/12/2016

    .. .Sheriffhall Park and Ride terminal building - very convenient if you dont have a car!

    Posted 7 years ago #

  3. Stickman
    Member

    ...congestion busting move...allow the City Bypass to surge straight through...pass through without being hindered...end the misery

    Hmm, let's wait and see how that works out.

    And of course, a comment from the expert:

    Neil Greig, head of policy for Scotland at the Institute of Advanced Motorists, said "It’s one of the last great pinch points round Edinburgh"

    Umm, you might want to check on that one Neil....

    Posted 7 years ago #

  4. neddie
    Member

    Hmm, let's wait and see how that works out.

    My guess:

    The same queues, but added on to the back of the queues at the Straiton to Dreghorn section.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  5. chdot
    Admin

    Take your pick -

    "

    Farr Cannall 1:13 PM on 06/12/2016

    Switch OFF the traffic lights at the roundabout. That'll sort it.

    Don't call me Geezer 12:52 PM on 06/12/2016

    The city bypass should be a direct (no roundabouts) link between the M8 at one end and A1 at the other. It's time that all of the three bottleneck junctions were removed. I'd be happy to put up with the pain of roadworks knowing that traffic would be able to flow straight through, or "bypass" the city........

    heyheyhey 11:57 AM on 06/12/2016

    The congestion on the bypass is caused because a limited resource (the road) is free at the point of use. Introduce tolls to regulate supply and demand (you know, like a free-market economy) and the road will magically become "free flowing" , like those smooth, well-maintained toll motorways in continental Europe. You wouldn't expect loaves of bread to be free in the shops and the demand limited by queuing, so why do you expect a road to be free? The sooner we toll all trunk roads and motorways the better - it works in the rest of Europe.

    "

    Read more at: http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/plans-to-revamp-edinburgh-s-worst-roundabout-unveiled-1-4309840#comments-area

    Posted 7 years ago #

  6. chdot
    Admin

    Interesting to see the extent to which Strava equipped riders prefer Gilmerton to Sheriffhall -

    http://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#14/-3.12595/55.89447/orange/bike

    Posted 7 years ago #

  7. Frenchy
    Member

    That's really striking, especially as most people then seem to turn left to get to Dalkeith anyway, and when you bear in mind that Strava will skew towards confident road cyclists

    Posted 7 years ago #

  8. chdot
    Admin

    "Strava will skew towards confident road cyclists"

    Yup

    Posted 7 years ago #

  9. amir
    Member

    Plus that's the ERC route

    Posted 7 years ago #

  10. Frenchy
    Member

    Just back from this.

    They've narrowed down to three options:

    Option A
    Option B
    Option C

    From a cycling perspective, Option C seems the best.

    Option A involves crossing the slip roads, and the connection between the roundabouts. Option B is indirect and still requires crossing the slip roads. Option C involves crossing one road, which I think would be the quietest road in the area (the road to Millerhill) but has a bridge over the A720 and an underpasses under the A6106.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  11. southsider
    Member

    A wee bit more info here

    Scheme Objectives
    The following scheme objectives have been set, in consultation with Stakeholders, to address the main issues encountered at Sheriffhall Roundabout and will be used in the assessment to help determine which of the options is preferred.
    · Improve the movement of traffic on the A720 between
    Gilmerton and Old Craighall by providing grade
    separation of the A720 at the existing Sheriffhall
    Roundabout.
    · Reduce the conflict between strategic and local traffic
    · Minimise traffic impact of local proposed developments in Midlothian, East Lothian and City of Edinburgh on the A720 between Gilmerton Junction and Old Craighall Junction and approach roads.
    · Improve road safety for all users on the A720 and
    approach roads between Gilmerton Junction and
    Dalkeith Northern Bypass.
    · Minimise intrusion of the new works on the natural
    environment, cultural heritage and people whilst
    enhancing the local environment where opportunities
    arise
    · Facilitate integration for different modes of transport along and across the A720 corridor between Gilmerton Junction and the Dalkeith Northern Bypass
    · Reduce severance by improving accessibility across the A720 for all users.

    I agree that Option C is the best of the lot.
    Option A has level crossings of fast sliproads - not very appealing.
    Option B sends cyclists through a new ped/cycle tunnel under the bypass a wee bit to the west of the junction and this has level crossings for cyclists doing anything other than following the A7 northbound.
    Option C is more or less the same layout as A for drivers but further to the west with the old roads converted to cycleways, and a new ped/cycle bridge is provided across the bypass. Only downside with this option is the doubling back required to climb to the bridge - but it seems to offer quite good separation from traffic which will be a good thing!

    Any ideas what "Facilitate integration for different modes of transport along and across the A720 corridor between Gilmerton Junction and the Dalkeith Northern Bypass" means?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  12. Klaxon
    Member

    All option C needs to be 'perfect' is a straightening out of the DDA footbridge, it's a road project, building a Leith Links style embankment leading up and down is a drop in the ocean and would probably just help keep the 'spoil to reprocessing' volume down.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  13. Frenchy
    Member

    DDA?

    But yes! I'd probably add a controlled crossing on the Millerhill Road crossing as well.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  14. fimm
    Member

    DDA = Disability Discrimination Act?
    The ramp will be veeeeeeeeery looooooong and very shallow, so you can get a wheelchair up it. Which is good, not just for cyclists. See the veeeeeeeery long ramp at Livigston North railway station which I never use, preferring to carry my bike down the steps. Life is too short.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  15. Klaxon
    Member

    Disability Discrimination Act

    A "compact" off the shelf design for footbridge exists that complies with the gradient requirements and appears to be being proposed here. It's ugly as sin, second example. There's no reason it has to be used in a situation like here when you can dump spoil on the old roads up to the correct level.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  16. Frenchy
    Member

    Cheers. I was told that the details of the bridge hadn't been figured out yet - so if you get your comments in now they might be listened to.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  17. fimm
    Member

    Another issue with a standard bridge is it would be quite narrow if you imagine lots of cyclists trying to share it with pedestrians and dogs. Or if they think ERC are going to go that way over a narrow bridge - that ain't going to happen. (Or is it?) So something that can be wider would be better.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  18. PS
    Member

    The DDA bridges do a job but they're not great. They slow you down and I really don't like the 180 degree turns you have to do. They're an acceptable solution in the confined footprint of a railway station, but surely with all the space to play with they could do a better job as Klaxon suggests?

    Also, on Option C coming from the south on the A7 looks a bit dodgy - having to cross a 60mph(+) road to get the cycle path. Add the DDA bridge hassles noted above, I suspect I'd be inclined to stay on the road and navigate the two roundabouts. Although this may take into account the assumption that cyclists coming from the A7 to Edinburgh would be better advised to head in through Gilmerton or Bonnyrigg.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  19. neddie
    Member

    What would the Dutch do?

    For starters, they would not make unpowered road users climb gradients and navigate narrow, "railing-ed off" routes unnecessarily.

    Instead they would ensure the cycle routes were on the level, with the motorway / roads changing grade. Also they would ensure adequate separation between high-speed and low speed road users at the crossings.

    Not good enough Transport Scotland...

    Posted 7 years ago #

  20. chdot
    Admin

    History (1999)

    "

    Sheriffhall bridge success

    Midlothian Council is celebrating today after receiving £800,000 to build a segregated cycle and pedestrian bridge over the busy Sheriffhall roundabout. This will link the Midlothian communities North and South of the City Bypass. It will be integral to the future development of the South-East wedge pedestrian and cycle routes and very much welcomed by those cyclists who currently brave the 'unfriendly' Sheriffhall roundabout.

    The full project cost of £1million will be made up from the Scottish Executive Public Transport Fund grant, along with contributions from Midlothian Council, Scottish National Heritage and landfill tax credits via Sustrans.

    Work will start almost immediately on planning the new bridge which will sweep from Old Dalkeith Road, linking with the current off-road route, across the Bypass and the A6106 with an off-ramp linking to proposed cycle lanes on the A7 heading towards the new Royal Infirmary.

    "

    https://web.archive.org/web/20071027211059/http://sr2snet.spokes.org.uk/latenews.htm#Sheriffhall%20bridge%20success

    Posted 7 years ago #

  21. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Just been having a look at the options on the Transport Scotland website. The cycle provision feels very tacked-on, while Motor Traffic is afforded lovely wide radius corners and grade separation. Is there only enough money to fund one underpass?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  22. chdot
    Admin

    "The cycle provision feels very tacked-on"

    Is that you being polite?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  23. Cyclingmollie
    Member

    Where did the mention of the DDA come from? It was replaced by the Equality Act six years ago.

    Does still help to flag up ill-researched box-ticking exercises though.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  24. jonty
    Member

    It's colloquially used to refer to a specific style of accesible off-the-shelf footbridge which looks a bit naff just does the job in restricted space as explained above. I'm not sure it was used anywhere in the documents?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  25. Klaxon
    Member

    It was brought up by me in exactly the context Jonty describes. I was unaware of the DDA being fully usurped.

    I'm sure the 'Equality Act Bridge' is equally naff and unsuitable for bicycles

    Posted 7 years ago #

  26. Frenchy
    Member

    Just writing a response to this consultation.

    Does anyone have opinions about the design of the entrance to Sheriffhall Cafe? Would a toucan crossing be necessary here, or would giving cyclists/pedestrians priority over traffic entering/exiting the cafe (either with a zebra crossing or a raised table) be sufficient?

    Posted 7 years ago #

  27. chdot
    Admin

    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/revealed-sheriffhall-bypass-flyover-plan-revealed-1-4410411

    Posted 7 years ago #

  28. Klaxon
    Member

    https://www.transport.gov.scot/media/6394/public-exhibition-drawing-opt-b-media.pdf

    Posted 7 years ago #

  29. jonty
    Member

    That was the worst one for active travel was it not? Sad to see another golden opportunity missed.

    Posted 7 years ago #

  30. Klaxon
    Member

    Once built I expect it will have the same character flaws that the Gogar Roundabout has. You can't reasonably cross the side roads in the fashion the design implies without toucan crossings

    Posted 7 years ago #

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