Jeepers, that took a while to fill in !
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
Pavement parking - another consultation.... (and implementation)
(224 posts)-
Posted 7 years ago #
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I've done it too. Tendentious and overlong.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"
However, that changed with the passage of the Scotland Act a year ago, and transport minister Humza Yousaf has now acted on the Scottish Government’s pledge, to “progress this important matter”.
It is due to form part of a wide-ranging transport bill which ministers are expected to introduced this autumn.
As a precursor, they have launched a consultation until the end of June, which contains fascinating details about how complicated the subject is.
"
Posted 7 years ago # -
https://twitter.com/frankross06/status/850280380259348480
(And scroll down)
Posted 7 years ago # -
I've reported a few instances of bad parking via the @edinhelp twitter account. They pass this on to enforcement and, in some cases, it has made a difference.
I reported a car parked fully on the pavement where there were DYLs on the road. It was still there later that day, but had been ticketed.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Closes on 30th June
Get your responses in, if you haven't already
Posted 7 years ago # -
When they publish the responses and you see one that's incredibly sarcastic... that'll be mine...
Posted 7 years ago # -
POP has responded http://pedalonparliament.org/free-parking/
Posted 7 years ago # -
Also closes today
Posted 7 years ago # -
IMPROVING PARKING IN SCOTLAND CONSULTATION ANALYSIS REPORT
Thank you for responding to our consultation paper on ‘Improving Parking in Scotland’, which closed to the general public on 30 June and to local authorities and Regional Transport Partnerships on 31 August 2017. We have now analysed all 663 responses and published a report of the findings that is now available to view on the Citizen Space website at: http://consult.gov.scot/road-policy/improving-parking-in-scotland/ .
A copy of the analysis report can also be viewed on the Transport Scotland website at: https://www.transport.gov.scot/publication/improving-parking-in-scotland-consultation-analysis-report/ . To request copies by post, please email parkingconsultation@transport.gov.scot or phone us on 0141 272 7438.
Kind regards
Sharon Wood
Sharon Wood
Senior Road Policy Officer
Road Policy Team, Trunk Road and Bus Operations Directorate, Transport ScotlandPosted 6 years ago # -
"In summary, the findings have shown that pavement parking is a problem in many local areas and that these problems are experienced on a daily basis by a number of respondents. The analysis has found that there is overwhelming support for new legislation to address the problem and make parking clearer for all. However, respondents have called for caution in the implementation of any restrictions as a ‘one size fits all’ approach could become disruptive for whole communities if there is no flexibility in exempting roads."
"Approximately 18% (38 responses) proposed an exemption to allow loading/unloading where it could not have been safely performed if vehicle had not been parked on the footway. Another 9% (19 responses) proposed exempting vehicles to park with two wheels on the pavement if there was no suitable alternative, 8% (16 responses) proposed exempting disabled drivers."
Sigh. Vehicular Stockholm Syndrome.
Posted 6 years ago # -
There's a young lady in an electric wheelchair in my street and the pavement is blocked by a vehicle called a 'Barbarian' within twenty metres of her house every single day. The thing is so big it would block the street if it was parked conventionally.
I'd put its driver in a wheelchair for a few weeks and see how they like it.
Posted 6 years ago # -
someone I know now puts chips or crisps on cars parked like this.
it is a tremendous idea.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Another 9% (19 responses) proposed exempting vehicles to park with two wheels on the pavement if there was no suitable alternative
"Suitable" is a very flexible word here. I think "parking 100m down the road" (or even 1000m) is a suitable alternative - others unfortunately won't agree with me.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@Iain McR
Unwise for me to be involved in that round our way. Everyone knows everything.
Could do a swap with anyone else similarly blighted?
Posted 6 years ago # -
@IWRATS Can you train seagulls to deposit on demand?
EDIT: Chips, crisps or ... otherwise
Posted 6 years ago # -
It's all very well gauging opinion through a consultation. No one wants pavement parking as long as it never affects their own ability to park.
But you get what you legislate for.
If you want a chaotic dangerous unenforceable mess, by all means legislate vague exemptions. If you truly want proper respect for pedestrians, the disabled, reduced urban clutter, etc. then an outright ban is required.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Can you train seagulls to deposit on demand?
Nick Cook's three steps ahead of us, isn't he?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Wait a sec. This from the summary overview, seems conclusive.
---
In total, 663 responses were received, in which there was an overall consensus amongst respondents 83% that new legislation was required to resolve the issues surrounding inconsiderate parking.
The majority of the respondents (81%) agreed that parking is a problem, and that most (461) encountered this problem on a daily basis. A substantial number of respondents (73%) agreed that any new legislation should cover all roads and footways, including private roads. While there was general support for new legislation a number of respondents 62% (392) disagreed with the proposal that local authorities should carry out exemptions to specific streets or areas from the proposed national restrictions for pavement parking.
Furthermore, 85% (548) respondents believed that parking enforcement should be applied consistently across Scotland. Interestingly, of those that agreed consistency in enforcement of parking is needed there was a split in how this should be achieved, with 48% of those supporting the roll-out of Decriminalised Parking Enforcement (DPE) across the country. However, 23% believe it should be for Police Scotland to enforce, and the remainder presenting alternative proposals.
---
Posted 6 years ago # -
Quite impressive numbers given how the survey felt written to guide respondents towards watered down restrictions
Posted 6 years ago # -
@IWRATS Can you train seagulls to deposit on demand?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Frenchy, Selling ones car and walking/cycling could also be considered a suitable alternative to parking it on the pavement in many/most area of the city. It's far too subjective and would only have a tight legal definition after many years of case law which council's cannot afford to fight. It would therefore be a waste of Holyrood and everyone else's time if that was the result.
However, as Crowriver points out, it does appear that the majority of people are in favour of cleansing society of this ailment.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I think we should be careful about conflating "people who respond to a consultation on pavement parking" with "people", but aye.
Posted 6 years ago # -
As one of those people who filled it in (on behalf of POP as well as as myself) I agree that probably only quite a motivated section of society would have stayed the course (it was actually about 4 consultations rolled together). But then again, as many of those people who did will be those with experience of disability or groups representing them, so a rare chance for those who need it most to get their voices heard.
That said, even in Dumfries (which apparently needs 1000 extra parking spaces and you can park everywhere for free and the weekly park run had to be cancelled in March so the *envionment fair* would have enough parking spaces) people are pretty agin pavement parking and other anti-social and scofflaw car dumping.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Is pavement parking a uniquely British blight? I ask because I remember being surprised to be told by a police officer in Belgium that it is illegal there to park facing against the flow of traffic. Do our continental cousins have more stringent laws that have normalised considerate driver behaviour? Or are they just nicer chaps?
Posted 6 years ago # -
@PS - The Highway Code does say not to park against flow of traffic, but it's advisory (except at night and unless you're in a designated parking space).
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/waiting-and-parking-238-to-252
Posted 6 years ago # -
However, respondents have called for caution in the implementation of any restrictions as a ‘one size fits all’ approach
The law is inevitably a "one size fits all" approach. That's because
(A) It has to cover any expected scenario.
(B) If you want people to obey the law, they need to know what's legal and what isn't.
In this case, the objection to "one size fits all" is really just a way of saying,
"No pavement parking, except where banning pavement parking would reduce the number of parking spaces"
i.e. When a street is so narrow that parking on both sides would prevent cars passing, then cars should continue to be allowed to park on - and block - pavements.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@Frenchy: Rule 249 is an interesting one. I never see any of the vehicles parked on the 40mph stretch of Comiston Road displaying parking lights at night. It's as if the law doesn't actually exist...
I've just had a quick look at the Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974, which is where the law against pavement parking on London is laid down. Apart from emergency/out-of-the-ordinary situations, the only exception to the law is if the accused can prove:
...to the satisfaction of the court that the vehicle was parked...for the purpose of loading or unloading goods, and—
(i)the loading or unloading of the vehicle could not have been satisfactorily performed if it had not been so parked; and
(ii)the vehicle was not left unattended at any time while it was so parked.I've no idea whether any of those conditions (such as "satisfactorily performed") have ever been tested in court.
It certainly doesn't seem to allow drivers any discretion along the oft-cited lines of putting two wheels on the pavement because otherwise emergency vehicles couldn't get through. (Which would seem to be covered by Highway Code rules 242 and 243). AFAICS the only circumstance under which pavement parking is ordinarily allowed in London is if the local council, or the Secretary of State, has resolved that it should be allowed in a particular location - and signs have to be in place to say so (although the signage requirement is left frustratingly woolly).
Posted 6 years ago # -
I never see any of the vehicles parked on the 40mph stretch of Comiston Road displaying parking lights at night. It's as if the law doesn't actually exist...
If you want to hear someone laugh, you could try phoning 101...
Posted 6 years ago # -
I just wish they would actually implement something!
It seems to have been getting spoken about for years with the only result being - lets have another consultation.
Posted 6 years ago #
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