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Pavement parking - another consultation.... (and implementation)

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  1. ejstubbs
    Member

    A total of 3,300 letters have been sent to people living in the streets worst affected by pavement parking.

    I interpreted that as meaning all the residents in the identified streets - although I suspect that would have been 3,300 addresses, rather than 3,300 individuals.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  2. wishicouldgofaster
    Member

    My street and some others in the area do not have pavements but have a hardstanding area for residents parking. Lo and behold though the council have decided this is a footway. Clerwood is rather unique in that pedestrian access is at the front of the properties and the road/parking at the rear. It seems ironic that I am may have to fight the cancel especially as I have been rather vocal in trying to get pavement parking banned.

    I am hoping that common sense will prevail but am unsure that it will!

    Posted 11 months ago #
  3. Yodhrin
    Member

    I ask in genuine ignorance as I don't know the area that well - would it be common sense, or just received wisdom? As in, it's been used for parking on for so long and with no pushback at all so people just assume it was made to be parked on rather than just being cheaper concrete pavements? In either case, looking at google maps I'm hard pressed to find any houses in the "segregated access" area that don't have at least a single garage facing those access streets, so perhaps the council have decided that if they're not going to designate it as car-free footway when basically every house has off-street parking, they'll be facing even more objections from elsewhere.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  4. Morningsider
    Member

    @wishicouldgofaster - The Transport (Scotland) Act 2019 prohibits the parking of motor vehicles on a pavement, which means a footpath or footway - which are defined as follows:

    Footway: Commonly known as “the pavement”, a footway is a way, which is associated with a carriageway, where right of passage is limited to foot.
    Footpath: A way, which is not associated with a carriageway, where right of passage is limited to foot.

    Looking at Edinburgh Council's list of public roads, it seems all the "hard standing areas" to the rear of homes in Clerwood are designated as footways. This means the pavement parking prohibition applies to those areas.

    The Council do have the power to exempt streets from the prohibition (Section 51 of the 2019 Act). However, Cllr Arthur has been pretty clear that there will be no such exemptions in Edinburgh.

    I suppose the best thing to do is lobby your local councillors to support the creation of an exemption.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  5. DuddingstonDomestique
    Member

    Commute via Mountcastle Drive into town takes me past a cul-de-sac, Mountcastle Grove, that has always had cars parked on one of the pavements at the entrance. It may be just a coincidence but this morning for the first time in years there were no cars on the pavement. Maybe the message is getting through....

    Posted 11 months ago #
  6. wishicouldgofaster
    Member

    Thanks for all the replies, some of which were extremely useful. I have been in e-mail correspondence with several of the local councillors. As I said in my original message the area is clearly not a footway so I am hoping that common sense will win the day. My street is a cul-de-sac (there's a field at the end of it) and pedestrian access is provided by paths at the front. It is rare for anyone to actually walk there apart from going to/from their car.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  7. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Maybe the message is getting through...

    Like the time they did that big song and dance about minimum passing distance of 1.5 metres, and all the drivers were tiptoeing around cyclists for about a fortnight and then got lazy again.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  8. ejstubbs
    Member

    @Morningsider: Interesting and useful map you linked to there. Any idea what "Fway/Cycleway (Redetermined)" means in the key? It doesn't seem to mean a shared use footway because the bits of shared footway I'm familiar with (along Russell Road, and at the junction of Oxgangs Road North and Colinton Road, outside Firrhill High School - a section I use a lot) aren't marked in dark purple.

    I shall be interested to see whether the large bulge of designated footway at the junction of Braid Road and Buckstone Terrace becomes free(er) of parked cars & vans than it typically has been in all the time I've been living round here: Streetview photo. Clearly the current random distribution of bollards and planters is wholly ineffective. (Observe also how the driver of the farthest of the white vans in that shot has committed the holy trinity of DILLIGAF parking: on double yellows, on the footway and in the mandatory cycle lane. As a bonus, their portaloo and building materials are also dumped on the public footway.)

    Posted 11 months ago #
  9. Frenchy
    Member

    @ejstubbs - there don't seem to be any "Fway/Cycleway (Redetermined)" rows in the underlying dataset, so it doesn't seem to mean anything at all at the moment.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  10. Arellcat
    Moderator

    @ejstubbs, the build-out at the Braid Road junction has been in place as long as I can remember, so there is very probably a sense of grandfathered rights on the part of residents and contractors.

    I think it was done in the 1970s or early 1980s.

    Posted 11 months ago #
  11. chdot
    Admin

    Posted 11 months ago #
  12. boothym
    Member

    Regarding enforcement now that it has come into effect - what does a council need to do in order to ticket a vehicle on the pavement under this act?

    Assume councils need to update their systems so the parking attendants can produce PCNs updated with new codes or whatever for the correct contravention of pavement, double, or dropped kerb parking - but after that they can begin enforcement?

    Fife Council saying they need to add in exemptions and "mark footways where it is legal to park": https://www.dunfermlinepress.com/news/23991719.fife-council-mark-footways-legal-park/
    But surely they could do what they do now and just ignore places they don't want to ticket? Or only enforce it if there's less than 1.5m gap, obstruction, or DYLs.

    Posted 10 months ago #
  13. Morningsider
    Member

    @boothym - as far as I am aware, Fife Council are correct. Scottish Ministers have issued a direction to every Scottish local authority requiring them to carry out an assessment of every pavement within their area, to determine whether any should be exempted from the pavement parking prohibition.

    If a local authority decides to create any exemptions then there is a formal process to be gone through - effectively our old friend the TRO process.

    Only once this whole exercise is complete can enforcement begin.

    These Ministerial directions do not appear to be available online, although an earlier consultation version can be found on the Transport Scotland website (See page 7).

    Edinburgh Council short circuited this exercise by choosing not to create any exemptions. Which means no exemption Orders were required and enforcement could begin shortly after the prohibition came into force.

    Posted 10 months ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

    A further benefit of the pavement parking ban enforcement in Edinburgh -

    "I drive a pavement tractor gritter in your ward for the council when weather conditions dictate it’s needed. I was out this morning and what a difference since the pavement parking ban came into force yesterday , it’s the first time I can ever remember being able to grit the whole pavement in Swan Spring Avenue and Swanston Gardens , not having to bump up and down to avoid cars parked on the pavement once this morning long may it continue for the benefit of everyone. "

    https://twitter.com/CllrScottArthur/status/1752459704914129340

    Posted 9 months ago #
  15. gembo
    Member

    This was a tactical success

    Not looking at any exemptions led to Edinburgh being first. Highland to follow?

    Posted 9 months ago #
  16. boothym
    Member

    Edinburgh driver fumes at 'scandalous' pavement parking fine outside his home -https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-driver-fumes-scandalous-pavement-28559178

    Article doesn't give much detail, but someone on Twitter said that it was in Morningside Gardens and the footway (on the south side) is not adopted by the Council. Does that mean it cannot be enforced?

    Though looking on Street View the pavement is less than a metre wide and blocked by brown bins as much as cars anyway.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  17. Frenchy
    Member

    Certainly looks like Morningside Gardens, and the southern footway is indeed not adopted. I had assumed that non-adopted roads/footways weren't enforceable, but could easily be wrong.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  18. Greenroofer
    Member

    I can confirm that, historically, cars on Morningside Gardens did tend to be parked on the un-adopted, un-surfaced, footway. There was a brief period last week when there weren't any parked on the south side of the road at all (I wonder why!) but they are now back, but just not parked on the footway. It's going to be interesting to see if the mega bin lorry can get down to empty the monster bins on that road...

    Posted 9 months ago #
  19. rust
    Member

    Posted 9 months ago #
  20. DuddingstonDomestique
    Member

    It seems the council can act quickly and expeditiously when it wishes to. A week after the start of introduction of enforcing the pavement ban Regent Street and Marlborough Street in Portobello, notorious for pavement parking, are to get double yellow lines to prevent drivers blocking the streets. Photos of these streets were used in the advance publicity material by CEC.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  21. chdot
    Admin

    Edinburgh is now one week into enforcing the pavement parking ban, and so many people have told me their street has changed for the better as a result.

    Well done to the @Edinburgh_CC Parking and Media Teams for their awareness raising campaigns, and to the many motorists who are now parking more safely.

    Not everyone, however, has abided by the the new rules. Fines issued so far:

    Pavement Parking = 141

    Parking Dropped Kerb Crossing = 10

    Double Parking = 19

    These and other parking problems can be reported here: https://webforms.edinburgh.gov.uk/site/portal/request/report_illegally_pk_veh

    https://x.com/CllrScottArthur/status/1754486578485813295?

    Posted 9 months ago #
  22. chdot
    Admin

    It’s great to see the pavements clear now in Regent St, and the DYLs in. It looks completely different. It begs the question of why we’ve had to wait for more than 15 years? I know it will be frustrating for some residents but the street is now accessible for everyone.

    https://x.com/kirstylewin/status/1754578623376277791?

    Posted 9 months ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    The negative effects of pavement parking

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0h9jqw5

    Posted 9 months ago #
  24. chdot
    Admin

    Last month, fines began to be issued to motorists who park on pavements across the Capital. More than 200 penalties were handed within the first week of the laws being enforced.

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/city-of-edinburgh-council-boosts-number-of-attendants-amid-pavement-parking-crackdown-4533469

    Posted 8 months ago #
  25. pringlis
    Member

    Was disappointed to hear from @EdinHelp on Twitter yesterday that they can't use the pavement parking enforcement to stop parking like where wheels are on the pavement but the body overhangs significantly. This van was taking up half the pavement!

    Posted 8 months ago #
  26. Dave
    Member

    Perhaps we should be collating photos like this and using them to jumpstart a campaign to amend the law so it's the body of the vehicle and not the wheels which are relevant...

    Posted 8 months ago #
  27. chdot
    Admin

    Enforcing the pavement parking ban in Edinburgh - tickets issued 4 weeks in:

    479 - Parked on a pavement.

    28 - Parked adjacent to a dropped kerb at a known crossing point.

    109 - double parking.

    https://x.com/cllrscottarthur/status/1762457436089163793

    Posted 8 months ago #
  28. Arellcat
    Moderator

    For what it's worth, this just in:

    You asked:

    With reference to the Transport (Scotland) Act 2019 part 6, why Section 50(2)(a)(ii) was written in terms of wheels on the pavement rather than vehicle bodywork that by itself should constitute an obstruction.

    Response to your request

    [Transport Scotland] does not have the information you have requested.

    However, this was discussed during the scoping of the Transport (Scotland) Act 2019. These discussions concluded that if a vehicle was overhanging and blocking the pavement [per pringlis' example above], this offence would already be covered under the Road Traffic Act 1988. The Police has existing powers to tackle 'dangerous parking' and 'vehicle causing unnecessary obstruction' offences. Additionally, local authorities can put in place physical barriers to prevent such obstruction, if it is felt necessary.

    It all feels a bit Yes, Minister, in that while it is local Government policy to regard administration of policy of obstructive carriageway parking as the responsibility of central government, and central Government policy to regard administration of policy of obstructive pavement parking as the responsibility of local government, a dilemma arises whereby the administration of the aforementioned policies is considered by the affected as substantially inseparable but the former is considered conveniently and comparatively exiguous by the central Government department discharging this function, and juristictively incompatible with the duties of a local government department.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  29. chdot
    Admin

    4.1

    A valid petition entitled 'Exemption to the Pavement Parking Ban in Bangholm streets' had been received on 8 May 2024. The petition received 50 signatures.

    4.2

    The petition calls on the Council for an exemption from the pavement parking ban in the Bangholm streets so that residents can continue to park next to their properties, which should help keep the carriageway clear and reduce hazards for pedestrians.

    https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/s71251/Item%207.1%20-%20Petitions%20Report%20-%20Exemption%20to%20the%20Pavement%20Parking%20Ban%20in%20Bangholm%20streets.pdf

    Posted 5 months ago #
  30. Arellcat
    Moderator

    The petition calls...for an exemption...so that residents can continue to park next to their properties, which should help etc etc.

    Mmm. 'Should' is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

    It would create a precedent that the original analysis of streets was somehow flawed and open to challenge. I can sort of see their point though. Bangholm Avenue for instance is incredibly narrow. But you can't have it both ways: you either keep the footways clear for pedestrians and have the carriageway obstructed by parked cars, or you prevent people walking safely on the footway so long as drivers can get past.

    People who want to own cars need to do as their neighbours have done, and convert their front gardens to parking.

    Posted 5 months ago #

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