(New thread by request.)
Yesterday.
Don't know whether this was a joke or stupidity -
(Previously http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=746&page=302&replies=9064#post-246450)
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure
"Cyclists dismount" at temporary lights
(28 posts)-
Posted 7 years ago #
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Tbh when I was there on Friday I did exactly that and wasn't overtaken by the car that was at the front of the queue until almost the lights at Holy Corner. But I obviously wouldn't like the precedent to spread.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Posted 7 years ago #
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According to the Council list - the works are for gas leak repairs and are being carried out by/for SGN.
I can't see how the sign would have any legal force, unless backed by a temporary traffic regulation order.
Also, Part 9, Schedule 13 of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 requires any temporary sign warning of a hazard, or conveying information, to cyclists to be red with white lettering.
My main concern is this just create needless tension. Cyclists who dismount feel aggrieved. Cyclists who (legally) stay on the carriageway are liable to abuse from drivers, or at least appear to confirm to OLAMs that cyclists are a bunch of scofflaws.
If cycling is to be seen as a legitimate mode of transport, then signs like this should simply not exist. Cyclists don't hold up the traffic - they are traffic.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Passed this morning on foot; sign still there. Coneworks van with engine running despite being empty as various workies in hi-viz pointed and shouted at the signs.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Good Morning Mr. Frenchy,
Thank you for your email.
I am pleased you have taken the time to contact us and can confirm your enquiry is being dealt with by our local depot who will be in touch with you shortly.
...
[SGN] Customer Service Advisor
Posted 7 years ago # -
Suppose I should copy/paste my reply from the previous thread
It seems to be a virus spreading amongst traffic control companies
See this thread for some details from Ranty Highwayman: https://twitter.com/lucullus/status/848156960381906944
My reading is that if a cycle lane is to be closed and there is no alternative route, there is a sign specified for this situation: 'Cyclists dismount and use footway' (traffic signs manual chap 8 pt 3 drawing P7018.1) . We're talking something along the lines of closing the cycling half of middle meadow walk. It's interesting having a skim of part one, this sign isn't ever used in an example layout.
Temporary traffic lights like these are not an appropriate use, as a cyclist is quite entitled to use the roadway.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"cyclist is quite entitled to use the roadway"
Indeed
Actually sign should say
'Sorry about the roadworks
If you're in a car, think about cycling tomorrow'
Posted 7 years ago # -
I've been using the pavement in Bargeddie for weeks as the west bound A89 is shut because of the M8 diversion. There's nothing wrong with the A89 but traffic heading west would have right of way over the east bound M8 traffic which has been diverted onto the A89 roundabout west of Bargeddie.
The other option is to follow the diversion to the A8 at Showcase cinema then back up onto the A89 200 m from where the diversion starts.
When there was snow I could see that I'm not the only person using the pavement.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I passed there at the weekend. I ignored the sign as it clearly has zero legal basis.
A road user is a road user...
Posted 7 years ago # -
There was one of these signs outside Kelso police station not long ago. I did the dutiful thing: lights were red - I dismounted. Lights changed to green, I remounted and pedaled on my way. (You'll notice that there's never a "cyclists remount" sign)
Posted 7 years ago # -
The white on red version of the sign is shown in the Traffic Signs Manual update 2016. But under "Legislation/ Design Guidance" it says "N/A", and users are referred elsewhere to Traffic Advisory Leaflet 15/99. This says:
"Where access is permitted for motor vehicles, "Cyclist Dismount" signs should not be used. The hazards to cyclists at roadworks are rarely great enough to justify this measure. In any case, cyclists are likely to ignore such instructions. The only situation where cyclists should be advised to dismount is where the carriageway is closed off but the footway remains open. In such cases a white-on-red temporary sign "CYCLISTS DISMOUNT AND USE FOOTWAY" may be used."PS I wrote this before seeing Klaxon's post above, and the recommended use of the 'dismount' signs is even rarer than suggested in Klaxon's post.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@hunnymonster
I can just imagine you doing that in speeded-up video to the tune of Benny Hill
Dismount, loop round bike a couple of times, look confused, remount, get chased by ladies
Posted 7 years ago # -
Thanks @slowcoach, I would have never found the actual guidance regarding the use of that sign given it's hidden away somewhere completely different
Posted 7 years ago # -
I'm sure it gave the inhabitants of Kelso police station something to discuss over their interminable tea breaks... Perhaps they're special captive constables, because I've never seen one out "in the wild", on the mean streets of Kelso, ever - not even in a car.
Posted 7 years ago # -
'Bad' news -
No temp lights/signs anymore, work finished.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Some roadworks on Mayfield Road today, near Kings Buildings. So the cycle lane is occupied by vans, cones and signs instead of the normal row of parked cars. Naturally, someone's decided that a "CYCLISTS DISMOUNT" sign is necessary.
Posted 6 years ago # -
!
Posted 6 years ago # -
Now if a small peloton were to arrive at that sign, stop, dismount and push their bikes along the road until they reached the sign that says "cyclists remount"...
Posted 6 years ago # -
until they reached the sign that says "cyclists remount"...
See you in John O' Groats.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@ECT I was thinking exactly the same thing...
Posted 6 years ago # -
I've started moving signs like that, the section just down from Potterow is always full of them.
I either drag them off the pavement/out of the cyclelane into the road or just pile them at the side of the road if there's space.
Posted 6 years ago # -
The reason they infuriate me is they contribute to "cyclists ignore roadsigns!!" opinions even though there is literally no reason for most of them to be there except an attempt to escape blame if one of their van drivers doors someone.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Roadworks, and the offending sign, were gone by 5pm, although the yellow cones were still there so they could be back tomorrow.
EDIT: From edintravel: "Clearing blocked cable ducts.
Lane restrictions on Tuesday 4th, off-peak 3-way temporary traffic lights at Blackbarony Road on Wednesday 5th."Sounds like a different layout tomorrow.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I missed that Mayfield Rd sign completely, must have been on other side.
however, i did note that a previous obstruction of cones and signs has moved off the road near KB, and there is no sign of what they might have been covering. there is a tarmac-mended spot before a bus stop, but these were _after_ the stop.
curious.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Posted 6 years ago #
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Regarding above Cyclists Dismount sign at King's Buildings, the utility company has told me that they will use "Cycle Lane Closed" signs in future.
Posted 6 years ago # -
“Cycle lane closed” makes vastly more sense and suggest to folk that bikes should be in he centre lane, as ‘their space’ has been removed
Posted 6 years ago #
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