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S5M-05106 Cycle Capacity on Scotland's Railways

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  1. SRD
    Moderator

    Spotted this in the latest Spokes Missive - follows from previous threads

    Liam Kerr MSP (North East Scotland) 'ScottishConservative and Unionist' has loged a private members motion about the Cycle carriage issue

    http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/28877.aspx?SearchType=Advance&ReferenceNumbers=S5M-05106&ResultsPerPage=10

    Motion S5M-05106: Liam Kerr, North East Scotland, Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party, Date Lodged: 10/04/2017
    Cycle Capacity on Scotland's Railways
    That the Parliament notes the calls on Transport Scotland and ScotRail to reverse reported plans to reduce available cycle space on trains serving intermediate stations on the Edinburgh/Glasgow - Inverness and East Coast main lines; understands that, on 25 February 2015, the ScotRail Franchise Delivery Team informed a meeting at the Parliament that there would be improvements in 2018-19, with the introduction of four and five coach InterCity 125 High Speed Trains and an expectation that these would carry at least 20 cycles; further understands that the cycling campaign group, Spokes, has discovered that the increase in bike space has been gradually reduced, which means that, for the stations on these lines, there will be fewer spaces for cycles than at present; believes that almost all ScotRail trains are Class 170 Turbostars with four official bike spaces and that, although the new plans include a total of eight bike spaces, six can only be used at the termini, with only two spaces available for stations other than the departure and arrival points; notes the calls on Transport Scotland and the ScotRail Alliance to recognise the immense contribution that it considers cyclists bring to local economies, especially in the Highlands and the north east, and further notes the calls on the Scottish Government to bring pressure on Transport Scotland and ScotRail to reverse this decision and increase cycle space on Scotland’s railways, as it understands was promised in 2015.
    Supported by: John Lamont, Peter Chapman, Graham Simpson, Jeremy Balfour, Andy Wightman, Oliver Mundell, Alexander Stewart, Douglas Ross, Dean Lockhart, Donald Cameron, Miles Briggs, Maurice Corry, Murdo Fraser, Finlay Carson, Ross Thomson, Liz Smith, Mark Ruskell, Annie Wells, Alison Harris, Alex Cole-Hamilton, Alison Johnstone

    Current Status: Achieved Cross Party Support

    Posted 8 years ago #
  2. Klaxon
    Member

    I wrote to my MSP this afternoon

    Posted 8 years ago #
  3. unhurt
    Member

    I will be writing to (well, possibly emailing - and possibly tweeting!) mine too...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  4. LaidBack
    Member

    Worth supporting. Sounds like Scotrail are aiming for Swedish hi speed train model where cyclists have been successfully discouraged for years (Volvo/Saab win!). From A to B magazine:
    http://www.atob.org.uk/bike-rail/bikeeurope-sweden-2/

    Scotrail have also operated on the randomness of the 'nice guard / bad guard' situation for years. Your bike will be tolerated but next time you might consider driving. Do not be complacent. Your holiday could end today. One or two West Highland guards are leaders in this 'keeping cyclists in their place' mode.

    Generally I've got on well as generally avoid busiest trains. I have though been told utter nonsense like 'Eurobikes are banned'. When challenged the guard got quite angry.

    For people wanting to see Scotland without having the bother of returning to their car this restriction is bad news.

    From rail staff point of view it does make sense to have a locked luggage van at one end. The real answer is to allow the one unit to be opened at least the major stations on route. Perth, Pitlochry and Aviemore.

    Good we are having a cross party line on this. Can we expect a response at POP? Good PR but should never have got to this stage. What on earth do they do with the surveys of bike use? Highland Line only allows ticketed bikes so they know where demand is. Scotrail must be uniquely backward not knowing what their customers want.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  5. unhurt
    Member

    I've almost given up using the north line in summer unless I booked months in advance. A whole long sunny Sunday spent stuck in Aviemore trying to get on each train that passed and failing put me right off. But I don't WANT to drive!

    Also the inclusion of "lift and hang" spaces is pretty awful for anyone without good upper body strength. (I have had days when getting a bike hung up has been a reall faff - shoulder problems - myself.)

    "From rail staff point of view it does make sense to have a locked luggage van at one end."

    It may well - but the point should surely be to make decisions from the passengers p.o.v.!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  6. LaidBack
    Member

    Unhurt - agreed about hanging bike spaces. Not user friendly if you have a heavier 'Eurobike'. Whatever that is (!)

    With one guard managing a five coach train it's maybe not so easy to allow people to access both ends of train at once. One self service car would be fine though? Inside space is trickier to 're-format'?

    Posted 8 years ago #
  7. unhurt
    Member

    Yeah, I did wonder if you were referring to something I ought to know about. Sit up & beg? So basically: be on a road bike or a mountain bike or get lost?!

    Posted 8 years ago #
  8. gembo
    Member

    Hanging hooks only on the very old Edinburgh to Glasgow stock at the moment.? Hanging hooks totally awesome, unless you cannot lift your bike onto the hook? Or more than six bikes. This Amount is never exceeded on the Edinburgh Glasgow slow route. Though often people stand there. But they get out your way?

    That electric bike I had for a week was a heavy brute as are those elephant bikes so I say horses for courses.

    Posted 8 years ago #
  9. Tulyar
    Member

    Many Many issues

    1) this motion fails to note the replacement of Class 156 with Class 158 on the West Highland Line - from 6 bikes to 2 per unit. Hitrans are also on this case of a 67% reduction in bike capacity

    2) motion is wrong - only 2 bike spaces officially on Class 170 because there have to be 2 inviolate wheelchair spaces (no prams or luggage either (in theory)) to meet EU PRM-TSI requirements despite the fact that railways say wheelchair spaces have to be booked with 24hr notice etc, and levels of demand generally mean one or both spaces are not used on most services at present. Not sure if devolved administration can make more pragmatic rules for Scotland.

    3) lifting and hanging bikes - especially on a moving train and with the cupboard arrangements on Voyagers may well be outside the envelope of safe lifting set out by HSE Manual Handling Regulations, so that any injury received might well place the TOC liable under Section 3 HSAWA 1974. I cannot lift the 19Kg Glasgow hire bikes on to the hooks on a Voyager, and a 110Kg with a 1000+Watt peak rating on the pedals I'm not exactly a weakling.

    4) crap design - the illustration shows the Voyager hooks and a bike hung by the back wheel. Bikes also swing around and smash into the interior panels leaving clear evidence of the damage caused (I'd welcome videos of this, and people struggling to hang up bikes, especially on the Virgin Voyagers, where you need to turn through 180 degrees and lift from the corridor with the bike to one side and in a cramped space, with arms at full stretch

    5) It is possible to have vertical bike stowage where the full weight of the bike does not need to be lifted (see the neat mini ramp used on the Bikeaway lockers) There is a design of bike stowage for trains, trams and buses, which I first saw used on Basel Trams in 1989. It uses the weight of the bike to hold it stable both in the vertical position (with the back tyre resting on the 'wall' surface on which the hook is mounted, and the option of slotting it in to a shallow channel for added stability) or in a near to horizontal position (or any angle between - which means that tandems and trikes can also use the same system - as we tested out on the IEP bike space mock-up) Using this system for vertical stowage the bike can be pulled up to the vertical position with most of the weight still resting on the back wheel, and then wheeled to the hook, with a shorts ramp made from U channel to raise the front wheel on to the hook and then locate the rear wheel through the weight of the bike settling back in the channel

    6) that toilets thing. Chiltern as already done this work on the same Mk 3 carriages. The HST has 'dump' toilets which are no longer acceptable, and so one toilet is being converted to CET with a tank that as to be emptied. Practicalities and cost means that the second toilet has to be shut down. On Chiltern services the entire toilet and luggage rack has been removed to create a generous vestibule space with space for 4-6 perch or tip-up seats, and the potential to hang up 2-6 bikes on the bulkhead with the sliding door in to the saloon. The toilets and luggage racks will have to be taken out anyway for the conversion in order to fit the sliding doors and operating gear, and so putting back an arrangement like that used by Chiltern is an design already accepted. This has a benefit that Scotrail claim they need to win - reducing the dwell time at stations as passengers get on & off the train. One coaches like the Mk 3 this process is often messy as there is no 'surge space' for passengers to get ready by the doors on arrival, or get through in to the saloon as a crowd boards with luggage etc. This feature could be very valuable in keeping the station stops short and the journey times fast. It might even be worth doing a quick trial with a Chiltern carriage in Birmingham...

    The replacement of the removed toilets, reportedly locked out of use reflects a low budget conversion, the power cars have 3 spaces, because that is the way they will come from GWR essentially they will have no work done on them, and the coaches will keep the same interior panels. The delivery of 5-6 bike spaces in each power car, will require the replacement of the 3 bike frame with a 5-6 bike unit - see the bike rack in the close at 2 Parkside as an example. The delivery of an open vestibule space in place of the 'closed in' space again needs to be repriced, although the panels and design has been delivered for Chiltern.

    7) the Scotrail offer also promised a feature which would allow you to check for available bike spaces and book them via an app or online. Great Western is already doing this (I can explain how but not here). We need to press for this in place and working for 2018. Joost Mortier from Scotrail is doing a presentation on their smart cards, and presumably related topics on 20th April - might see what comes from this.

    8) Transport Scotland underwrites (an presumably can specify some details) of the Caledonian Sleeper. I regularly arrive back on this train after a late event in Manchester or Birmingham and the Fort Willaim seated service has 31 seats and a whole van space which rarely has any of the 6 official bike spaces taken going North booking us messy and the great benefit of a train that gets you to Fort William before 10.00, and connects with the Mallaig train has never been properly promoted. If it departed by 04.30 (the combined train arrives in Edinburgh at 03.57) instead of 04.50, then it could connect with the Glasgow-Oban service for morning ferry sailings - on the islands by lunchtime - from Edinburgh. The Inverness portion is also 'almost' useful - it could arrive in time for the Ullapool coach (2 connections per day) and Stornoway by lunchtime, but for a frustrating 'gap' but it does connect with the early train for Kyle of Lochalsh.

    9) note that the HST's will be delivering an hourly express service on each route - more trains than now - with additional stopping trains, which I believe will be Class 170 and be non-reservable bike spaces. With the approved use of door vestibules on the side opposite to the platform at the guard's discretion, this means that a 3-coach Class 170 could carry up to 14 bikes (16 if the PRM space can be used)

    10) there is always the option of measuring current demand by doing counts on trains this summer, either by the Train staff keeping a count, or a co-ordinated survey using volunteers - much like the CTC station cycle parking survey in 2003, which covered 80% of UK stations in a month. I am aware that the morning HST that currently runs Inverness to Kings Cross can see up to 30 bikes loaded to get them to Edinburgh, where the train has 8-10 minutes in the station to unload them.

    11) finally to Clause 56 of the Scottish Citylink Conditions of Carriage - which improves on the previous Clause 11(e)

    56.
    The Company reserves the right to refuse trunks or other bulky articles, or any item heavier than 25kg (from 1st October 2013 onwards), or articles of an objectionable or dangerous nature, or which have sharp or protruding edges which may tear or damage other luggage with which it is packed within the coach. The Company is also entitled to request any passenger to open any article of luggage for inspection by the driver or other authorised employee of the Company in the presence of the passenger if, for reasons of security, the Company considers it necessary to do so. Subject to availability of accommodation, bicycles in a box/bag and skis/surfboards will be carried. Fragile items such as electronic goods, portable televisions, radios etc. will only be carried if they are of reasonable size and securely packed. The Company will not be responsible for damage to such items howsoever caused.

    Pressing Citylink, and possibly Transport Scotland to deliver this as a reservable and reliable option would be a real gain to trips to Argyll, Uig, Ullapool for Stornoway, and Gills Bay for Orkney.

    I'm finding this interesting and fun to follow, in 1978 (40 years from 2018 and this new introduction of HST's) I was part of the commissioning programme for the first launch of the HST's on the East Coast route....

    Posted 8 years ago #
  10. crowriver
    Member

    "Gills Bay for Orkney"

    Yeah. Currently looking at options for summer journey to Orkney and it's madness. Since Stagecoach took over the bus to Thurso/Scrabster (2013?), they no longer call at Thurso rail station, meaning passengers on the North Highland railway need to book a taxi in advance of arrival to connect to the ferry...

    Back in Ye Olden Days (30 years ago) the train service was properly integrated with connecting bus service to Scrabster, leaving enough time to buy a ticket and board the ferry...

    Don't get me started on trying to get a bicycle onto the North Highland railway...

    Posted 8 years ago #
  11. Klaxon
    Member

    Response from the office of Ben Macpherson MSP Edinburgh North and Leith (not even pp.)

      Thanks for your email. I assist ben Macpherson in his constituency office.

      I have written to Transport Scotland investigating this issue for another constituent; I have raised specifically the matter of the number of bike spaces on the new HST 125 trains up to Aberdeen and Inverness. Would you find it helpful if I shared this response with you when I have received it?

    I said yes please, but why isn't Ben signing the motion? Does this mean he's only writing to TS directly out of necessity and not because he believes it is the right thing to do?

      Ben feels that writing to Transport Scotland is the most direct way to find out the thinking on this matter. He is very willing to share the concerns of constituents such as yourself and to input his own views on this issue to Transport Scotland, as this is often a quicker and more decisive way to tackle an outstanding concern.

      I will be back in touch as soon as I have more information.

    Politician speak, yawn.

    Posted 8 years ago #

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