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Cyclist down (Shandwick Place)

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  1. sallyhinch
    Member

    We had a very strong steer from one victim's family that they did not want a die-in to be part of POP so we have kept POP itself about celebrating the potential of cycling, while respectfully marking deaths with a minute's silence.

    Die ins and ghost bikes can be a strong statement but if dealing with a particular death (rather than deaths in general), I feel that they are stronger if the approach to be led by the family and/or friends. Oxford's Broken Spoke for instance have been leading the way after a death of one of their friends/colleagues (http://bsbcoop.org/the-story-of-change-continues/) and the fact that they know her makes it much more raw and moving. Stop Killing Cyclists, who do the die ins in London, try and have family members involved too.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  2. Rosie
    Member

    STV is supposed to covering this on the 6pm news, if I haven't missed it.

    Agree about commemorating the young woman and seeing what the family thinks first.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  3. Rosie
    Member

    Sorry - tried to edit that. It should be "seeing what the family thinks first before commemorating the young woman."

    Posted 5 years ago #
  4. algo
    Member

    @sallyhinch - thanks. Perhaps an approach from the brilliant McNicoll family would be appropriate at the right time. I don't want to intrude by any means, but if it were me I think I would welcome a considerate but numerous response.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  5. rbrtwtmn
    Member

    There are now some comments on the STV article which STV say came from a Council spokesperson. With it in mind that these may be selectively quoted I'm trying not to allow them to make angrier than I already am...
    STV article

    There's more than enough video and witness quote on the STV news tv report for those who want to know everything. Inevitably, this is relatively disturbing. Be warned. Can I add to the voices asking that people don't speculate on here. Knowing the junction well and looking at this I've not found it difficult to come to conclusions but I'm not going relate these.

    That's enough for now.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  6. chdot
    Admin

  7. Darkerside
    Member

    Ha, the day I get a tweet into a Daily Record headline, and it's in such miserable circumstances.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  8. wingpig
    Member

    The EEN might not have had comments on the article itself, but allows them on its Facebook post of the article.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  9. Stickman
    Member

    The council comments in that STV article are shameful.

    Poor woman. Just awful.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  10. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Anyone with information is requested to contact the Road Policing Unit in Edinburgh via 101 and quote incident number 643 of the 31st May.

    "

    http://road.cc/content/news/223470-edinburgh-cyclist-killed-after-bike-gets-stuck-tram-tracks

    Posted 5 years ago #
  11. Stickman
    Member

    Council comments have been edited out of the STV article.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  12. nevelbell
    Member

    This is awful, awful news. The photos on the Daily Record site make me feel sick. Why didn't the Rabbies driver stop in time???

    Posted 5 years ago #
  13. steveo
    Member

    Why didn't the Rabbies driver stop in time???

    They have form on here for behaving aggressively around cyclists, not saying thats what happened here but...

    Posted 5 years ago #
  14. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Why didn't the Rabbies driver stop in time?

    Why does any motorist find that they cannot stop in time? Hmm. My presumption was that the bus driver was following the cyclist, but was possibly oncoming. I only know from the pictures that the bus was westbound.

    Unimpressive words from CEC on the DR article.

    "A Edinburgh City Council spokeswoman said: “Cycle safety is of utmost importance to the Council and to this end we have gone to every effort to raise awareness of the impact of the tram on all road users.

    cyclists are advised to take care when travelling near the tram tracks."

    Posted 5 years ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

  16. unhurt
    Member

    Council quotes still in Daily Record article I see. I wonder how they expect people travelling a route for the first time to do so safely? Do they expect drivers to have to do a recce so they can drive a new route safely? No? Odd that.

    Now cynically wondering if CEC will respond by trying to ban bikes from Princes St.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  17. Snowy
    Member

    In safety critical environments, you pause operations until the root cause of the problem has been dealt with. The principle being that it's not worth human lives.

    Unless it's a tram, apparently.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  18. ih
    Member

    "Now cynically wondering if CEC will respond by trying to ban bikes from Princes St."

    Hate to give them ideas, but I anticipate someone suggesting that bicycles should be banned from Princes St and all the way through to Haymarket. This, because no one listened during the planning stage that safety should be designed in rather than ignored. Any such suggestion must be resisted.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  19. Snowy
    Member

    Ignoring warnings, failure to take action, demonstrable disregard for public safety resulting in a death - it all points to a textbook definition under Corporate Homicide Act (Scotland).

    I don't think that setting up a death-trap and telling people 'be careful near that' counts as exercising a duty of care.

    So angry.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  20. DdF
    Member

    For info, re the Evening News article, I posted the following comment to the article...

    As the person who was contacted by the press and reported in this article, could I reply to a few of the comments...
    1. The first sentence I wrote was expressing sadness and sympathy for what had happened and the family affected. The continual toll of tramline-related injuries to cyclists and pedestrians, some of whom I know, is very distressing, and this is the worst possible.
    2. I did not say that "simple steps could have averted this tragedy" but that some measures might have made it less likely. As other commentators have pointed out, and as I also implied, we anyway do not know the exact cause.
    3. The coloured cycle lane at Haymarket has certainly reduced (though not eliminated) crashes and injuries there, but the West End junction is much more complex and it is hard to see how it can be fully solved without some form of physical separation or separate traffic light control.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  21. gibbo
    Member

    @snowy

    Ignoring warnings, failure to take action, demonstrable disregard for public safety resulting in a death - it all points to a textbook definition under Corporate Homicide Act (Scotland).

    Would that be just the council who were prosecuted? Or also individuals within that organisation?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  22. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I don't know what to think of this;

    [+] Embed the video | Video DownloadGet the Video Player

    Posted 5 years ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    "Cyclists to get trained for trams after track troubles"

    P.s. that was SEVEN years ago.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  24. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    that was SEVEN years ago

    Yes indeed, should maybe have pointed that out. But the sort of cheerful insouciance like they were teaching mountain bikers to bunny-hop drainage ditches, the fatalistic acceptance that we just have to deal with the danger placed in our way. Can you imagine pedestrians getting rope and harness training after the council installed bergschrunds in the pavement at Haymarket?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  25. unhurt
    Member

    Trained. How on earth can they train every person who might ride that route?

    Posted 5 years ago #
  26. sallyhinch
    Member

    Thinking a bit more about marking this tragedy. Obviously everything we've said about respecting the wishes of the family still holds, but I think anyone who's ever tried to ride around the tram tracks (or who gets off and walks as I do) feels this personally as too close for comfort.

    A ghost bike or a die in might be too much without the family's involvement but a 'ride of silence' along the worst bits might be quite powerful. Especially if riders dismounted at the tracks where it happened and just walked their bikes.

    It would need to be combined with a clear call for what we want to see done to mitigate the danger, to be most effective. Is there anything specifically that could be done at that location? I don't know the junction well enough myself

    Posted 5 years ago #
  27. rust
    Member

    That looks pretty straightforward.

    With no cars.

    Even then, that angle isn't that great. A bit of speed, a bit more rain, and bye bye front wheel.

    Not wanting to jump to conclusions, but while the police should surely look at or be aware of the history of Rabbies coaches interactions with cyclists, if we were to assume they weren't would there be an appropriate way to make them aware of this?

    I feel at the very least someone should check how complaints were managed internally.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  28. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    Is there anything specifically that could be done at that location?

    @Tulyar may be best placed to make technical recommendations.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  29. Harts Cyclery
    Member

    A segregated lane would make it safe. There's plenty of space.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  30. minus six
    Member

    I feel at the very least someone should check how complaints were managed internally.

    Not sure how rabbies manage public complaints, but timberbush just give it the "we passed your complaint onto our fleet manager" corporate buffer response

    There's no difference out there today - i'm going the 20 limit on Dean Bridge and passed close by impatient stagecoach driver going over 30

    Lothian Road still clearly regarded by all and sundry as a 34mph zone

    It goes on

    Posted 5 years ago #

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