CityCyclingEdinburgh was launched on the 27th of October 2009 as "an experiment".
IT’S TRUE!
CCE is 15years old!
Well done to ALL posters
It soon became useful and entertaining. There are regular posters, people who add useful info occasionally and plenty more who drop by to watch. That's fine. If you want to add news/comments it's easy to register and become a member.
RULES No personal insults. No swearing.
“[That] would give you an extra four or five seconds to cross the tramlines before the motor traffic comes,” he said.
Assuming, of course, you were starting from the front of the traffic when you traversed the junction.
If you were stuck behind traffic - say because cars were stopped in the ASL, or because traffic was moving when you got to the junction - how would it help?
Hi folks
I have been away a while but never gone.
Please PM me if there is an organised protest I will join in whatever is decided upon. Can we reach out to the critical mass folk?
For the 'when', next Wednesday at 8.30am would seem appropriate.
Harder questions are the 'what' and a clear 'why'.
The why is clear.
Can work on the exact what.
The BBC are running something on the 6:30 slot.
But I agree we'd need a succinct, clear message that even the EEN can't mis-quote.
Still a police presence at the West End this evening. Many floral tributes too.
I don't know anything more about the circumstances of this poor girl's death than the vast majority of commentators.
But if I hear "the driver didn't have a chance to stop" one more time ... :-/
And isn't it about time Rabbie's (and others?) drivers didn't have to concentrate on driving AND being the tour guide?
I wouldn't hold up the traffic for a whole hour ... I think massing at the spot, waiting for green, and then getting off and slowly walking through the junction would provide enough of a hold up to make the point.
Was wondering about scattering rose petals or something like that over the tram tracks (but that would make them even more slippery for any poor sod who had to cycle through them afterwards).
as to the 'what' - simply saying 'Please do what it takes to make us safe' is probably enough
On BBC now.
Couple of quick thoughts - to take or ignore as appropriate. I'm not even sure I agree with myself on some of them...
And yes so long as whatever happens is relatively respectful and not overly antagonistic I'm in... I couldn't get to sleep for a good long while last night I was so hugely angry and upset.
You're spot on with point 1. That is the theme of facebook posts I've seen. Trams and bikes are absolutely fine; it's the involvement of motor vehicles and the lack of segregation that makes Edinburgh#s current streetscape so dangerous.
Broadly agree with the rest; however, I don't think we need a gathering before the gathering. Let's go for Wed at 0830 and spread the word via social media. Meet somewhere at 0745/0800 and cycle along to Fraser's from wherever we are.
@Harts Cyclery good plan. I've posted on Critical Mass Fb.
'[That] would give you an extra four or five seconds to cross the tramlines before the motor traffic comes,'he said."
Assuming, of course, you were starting from the front of the traffic when you traversed the junction.
If you were stuck behind traffic - say because cars were stopped in the ASL, or because traffic was moving when you got to the junction - how would it help?
You would need to look to other examples of complex junctions, particularly Bow Roundabout in London, for examples of segregated cycle approach lanes, cycle traffic light phases and magic paint.
The problem is partly in the timing of the lights — which in the case of Bow is shorter than it ought to be, in contrast to the access to the cycle lanes, which is good — but particularly the combination of confusion of one green over another, leading to motorists moving off when they shouldn't, and motorists' RLJ behaviour, which has led to fatalities.
Bow Roundabout no.6 by beqi, on Flickr
What Bow fails to do is present the cyclist with a completely separate phase. The Bow approach is really a cyclists' phase to reach the ASL, which gives you a couple of seconds' head start by way of the very extended ASZ. This is fine until you reach critical mass, at which point you have to consider impatience among the cyclists as well as the motorists.
Trams and bikes are absolutely fine; it's the involvement of motor vehicles and the lack of segregation that makes Edinburgh's current streetscape so dangerous.
I've been saying this too, for four years now.
"
Spokes CycleCampaign (@SpokesLothian)
01/06/2017, 8:42 am
@s4cedinburgh We were seriously misquoted in that article - see our comment to the article. Painted lane not the answer there.
https://twitter.com/s4cedinburgh/status/870180739265908737
"
Re the above from chdot - the EN has edited the online article after I complained and it is now closer to what I said.
Re. the Haymarket coloured lane, as I said, it is certainly not a complete solution but the fact is that it has substantially reduced the crashes there - we have had very few reports from there since it went in, whilst crashes elsewhere have remained pretty constant.
I suspect it helps because it really highlights the dangers rather than because everyone religiously follows it (which they don't).
Each location needs its own careful assessement and the Lothian Rd junction would be very unlikely to be helped significantly by anything like that. It needs separation of bikes and traffic by time or by space - preferably space, which of course is the ideal whereever possible.
"many (like me) who don't personally know many/any of the inner CCE circle"
There really isn't one.
There are several (probably many) overlapping selections of people who over the past 7 years have met at CCE inspired 'events' including 'cycle on the frozen canal', 'let's move the Heras fencing/advertising hoarding that appeared on MMW before the Fringe', 'brick and chimney fancying rides', 'study trips', 'random rides' also a whole lot of CCEers introduced to Audaxing.
There are relative small numbers who meet once a month at PY (or not PY) for coffee - not the same people every month.
There are people, mostly because of CCE, who became the core of PoP.
There's a semi-hierarchy of people who post a lot - and may have long memories of past posts and a CCE style of dubious ironic humour and understanding of good/bad/desirable - but no dogmatic certainties or party line.
There is no clique that people are excluded from or a certainty that some people know all the others in 'the group'.
It is always easier to address remarks to people you've met and (may) have a better understanding of what they might think than just from reading posts.
This thread has developed a plan possibly (I really don't know) without any off-forum contact.
A strength of CCE is that an idea can be floated and gain traction among people who may or may not have met. Then something happens with a handful of people or many many more.
I think the 'tombstone at Holyrood' was mostly organised here and this looks like another important event that has been created here.
I assume there will be some PMing going on dealing with some aspects.
Any loose 'organisation' that has been going for 7 years cannot be perfect but (I think) it's remarkably flexible and resilient, but can never suit 'everyone'.
My sister saw the aftermath before the police arrived and we are both affected by it- I looked at some french detailing stats about trams and accidents although NOT the same-the detailing was advanced - this was mid 2000s I doubt ECC will have the same amount of Intel I would like to show my respects and to try and make sure that the council pay attention.
"so long as whatever happens is relatively respectful and not overly antagonistic I'm in"
I'm sure whatever happens will be respectful.
Some disruption is inevitable (and justified), but clearly won't be as long as the aftermath of the tragic event on Wednesday.
It is notable that Humza hasn't invited anyone from PoP to his consultation with cycling campaign groups, obviously afraid of an independent group that is willing to speak truth onto power!
Tnanks chdot. To be clear I'm offering no criticism whatsoever. And your remarks in response to my points are helpful too.
"To be clear I'm offering no criticism whatsoever."
No problem, didn't think so.
In case anyone wants to know, we have met!
Can I make a suggestion for the 'what'...
Gather in Charlotte Square at 8.15am next Wednesday and then ride South Charlotte Street before dismounting to cross Lothian Road and walk along Lothian Road past the scene of yesterday's tragedy [EDIT: pausing on Shandwick Place for a minute's silence for the victim] and then (still walking) turn right into Queensferry Road / right again into Hope street.
Those that want to gather can do so on the pavement outside Ryan's bar, those who want to head off can do so.
It doesn't have to be long event to have impact. The sight of a few hundred cyclists walking in protest at the dangerous facilities provided would give a stark image of strength of feeling that this woman's death is unacceptable and has to be the last.
Meet Charlotte Square is a good idea, but I think people should cycle down Hope Street, dismount and assembly ON Shandwick Place long enough to hold a very visible one minute's silence.
"
PLANS are being put in place to review cycle safety in the Capital after a 24-year-old tragically lost her life in a collision on Princes Street.
"
Do you know who Humza has invited @Kim?
That's a good plan for the 'what' @HankChief.
@chdot - the 'walk' could stop on Shandwick Place for a minute's silence [I've editted my post above to reflect]. I think making the point that it isn't safe for us to cycle those 200m to Shandwick Place is a key message. Whilst this junction is bad and urgently needs improving, the rest of the on-road tram tracks aren't much better for cycling, so this would widen out the focus to the whole on-road section.
In reality some people will come late / from differing directions so you will get people congregating on Shandwick Place around 8.30am
I hear what you're saying but I think it will be better (and safer) to get as many people as possible in the same place as quickly as possible.
DOESNT have to be just people with bicycles.
"ride South Charlotte Street"
I expect it to be solid with two lanes of traffic trying to get to Lothian Road.
You must log in to post.
Cycling in Edinburgh Flickr group
Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin
posts