I'm not precious either way, just wanting to stimulate a discussion on what would appropriate and impactful, so we can move on to raising awareness of it and why it is being done.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Commuting
Cyclist down (Shandwick Place)
(271 posts)-
Posted 6 years ago #
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All roads are going to be chocka at that time. It's agreed to stop on Rutland/Shandwick Pl; the question is how to get there. How about meeting in Rose St just where it meets S Charlotte St. Then we move off together (possibly with help of someone stopping traffic) onto Princes St, dismount at the Lothian Rd lights and walk across the junction to the point where we want to hold the minutes silence. Then move off together silently.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@HC
Agreed.
There is a hope/expectation that a reasonable number of people will be willing to turn up for a relatively short time and should be concentrated as quickly as possible.
The idea isn't to try to shut the city centre for as long as possible.
Posted 6 years ago # -
"How about meeting in Rose St just where it meets S Charlotte St. Then we move off together (possibly with help of someone stopping traffic) onto Princes St, dismount at the Lothian Rd lights and walk across the junction to the point where we want to hold the minutes silence"
Too much to hope that traffic can be held for long enough and also get 'everyone' through the lights onto Princess Street. Too much scope for being split up.
Better for early people to meet by West Register House, move along Hope St and meet others arriving at Fraser's or the Caley.
Posted 6 years ago # -
The idea isn't to try to shut the city centre for as long as possible
Totally agree. The goal of giving a strong message whilst paying tribute to the individual who has needlessly lost their life doesn’t need it.
Something striking, like a minute's silence can be done relatively quickly.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I'll be out of Edinburgh next Wednesday so unable to attend this necessary and important event. If one of you would care to pay respects on my behalf I would be very touched.
I will be seeking to attend the meeting with Mr Yousaf in another capacity to make my and our sadness and anger plain to him.
Posted 6 years ago # -
As soon as there's a settled meeting place and time, we can put something up on the POP site & start spreading the word.
Posted 6 years ago # -
"
Q What happened?
A A 24-year-old cyclist fell on Princes Street after her bike wheels apparently got stuck in a tram track. She was then hit by a minibus and died in hospital a short while later.
"
In spite of 'don't speculate' this thread (and elsewhere) has assumed that the minibus was behind the bike.
I have seen suggestions that in fact they were going in different directions.
Does anyone know for certain?
Which way was the minibus heading?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Reporting Scotland said last night that the minibus was "oncoming". I presume the BBC wouldn't say this if it wasn't true...
Posted 6 years ago # -
"As soon as there's a settled meeting place and time, we can put something up on the POP site & start spreading the word."
I think there is a general agreement on time (Wed 8:30) and place (Shandwick Place near the junction with Lothian Road between Fraser's and the Caledonian Hotel).
Due to the large number of people wanting to be in a relatively small space I expect they will be wheeling their bikes IF they bring them).
This is really not 'just for cyclists'. Many pedestrians are being affected and put in potential danger by the way CEC manages public spaces and pedestrian crossings to the intended advantage of tram flow.
This not an anti-tram or anti-CEC event it is to express concerns about the way things are being managed for all travel modes.
This is about how PEOPLE move around Edinburgh's city centre and how it needs to be understood/managed better.
This is essentially a Flash Mob and not being organised by any organisation (as far as I know).
CCE is a public on-line forum where people discuss things.
If PoP wants to be nominal organiser that would be good, (I, an individual CCE poster, think so). BUT I can see reasons why PoP might not want to (not a decision I would be involved in).
I hope that many people turn up and that they will be able to assemble quickly in one place, and have one minute of non-movement and silence then head off to their work/other destinations as they normally would.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I shall be on foot that day as bike shall be packed in bike box for trip to London and thenceforth paris for the weekend. However I shall be there to help marshal/stop traffic for safety if needed. I have some blue tabards, however would council against anyone identifying as an "organiser".
Posted 6 years ago # -
I will check with the PoPpers but my feeling is that this is a bottom-up protest that has emerged from the grassroots and not really PoP per se, similar with the tombstone and ghost bike
Posted 6 years ago # -
I'm hoping to go but am rather nervous about getting there (cyclestreets has Lothian Rd as the only choice)
Posted 6 years ago # -
(which isn't to say I'm washing PoP's hands of it - more that we wouldn't want to take credit for something we didn't do)
Posted 6 years ago # -
Can we get a ghost bike? There was one that was used in a couple of protests. Even if it isn't felt appropriate to leave it on the railings where the flowers are, it could be laid out at the centre of the protest. Good visual image for any photographs.
Posted 6 years ago # -
"which isn't to say I'm washing PoP's hands of it - more that we wouldn't want to take credit for something we didn't do"
Understood.
So, probably better that it remains as an event implicily calling for improvements to the way that the city centre facilitates people movement - as safely as possible.
Spokes is already doing a very good job of suggesting specific improvements. I assume Living Streets also has a list of things that need to be done.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@fimm
I'll see if I can't get that bike out of the canal aqueduct.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@amir - definitely some other options (although none of them fantastic). Two possibilities would be:
Meadows/Lady Lawson St/King's Stables Road
George IV Bridge/Princes Street GardensLet me know if you fancy some company on the way in.
Posted 6 years ago # -
City leaders have now pledged to look at accelerating safety measures...
(Adam McVey)
“I’ve spoken to senior officers about their immediate plans to improve cyclist safety, particularly on Princes Street, and about how we can accelerate some plans already in the pipeline to help improve safety for those on bikes across the city.”It is understood parts of the East-West cycle route, which will connect Leith Walk and Roseburn via George Street and would be partly segregated, are among the measures which could be sped up.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Does anyone know for certain?
Which way was the minibus heading?
The minibus was going in the same direction as the cyclist
Posted 6 years ago # -
The minibus was heading west. Based on the location of where the emergency vehicles were concentrated, I think the cyclist must also have been travelling west - but this is my speculation.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@amir @frenchy agree with both of those as decent routes. if we come and bring the kids we'll probablyu come via canal basin, and the hidden route to rutland square
Posted 6 years ago # -
I read elsewhere that they were heading in the same direction, but in adjacent lanes- after getting stuck in the rails, the cyclist toppled into the same lane as the bus.
Posted 6 years ago # -
It is understood parts of the East-West cycle route, which will connect Leith Walk and Roseburn via George Street and would be partly segregated, are among the measures which could be sped up.
Which is nice, but does not address the issues with the Lothian Road/Princes Street/Shandwick Place junction.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@amir - Agree with @SRD: get to the Lochrin canal basin (Akva) and take the shared paths and over bridge to Rutland Square.
Can accompany from Innocent direction.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I read elsewhere that they were heading in the same direction, but in adjacent lanes- after getting stuck in the rails, the cyclist toppled into the same lane as the bus.
There is only one lane westbound in front of Frasers (which is where it seems to have happened, going by the photos in the Record article).
Posted 6 years ago # -
I would like to pop a little slip of paper on all the bikes in my office building garage (of which there are over 100) about the protest. As we are on Lothian Road and Shandiwck is just round the corner shall I just say be at Shandwick for 8:30 on Wednesday? leave it generic and "flash-mobby"
Posted 6 years ago # -
Apologies for my late arrival in this debate. I was on my way back from Tip-Ex in Harrogate (truck porn in 32T 4-axle packages) bit I did do a piece for BBC and spoke to Alastair Dalton at the Scotsman en route from Wednesday - meeting Merseyrail on new trains, trying out their Merseytunnel bike bus, checking a bike bus issue in Manchester, & the new tram tracks, plus making a rail connection by cycling between stations.
Let's start with Rabbies Tour bus drivers using a microphone and giving a running commentary when driving the minibus. This is illegal. Has been since 1936, when the Conductof Bus Drivers Conductors Inspectors and Passengers Regulations was enacted Current version 1990 with SI 2015. Section 4 prohibits non-essential conversations directly or remotely between a driver and other parties, when driving the bus. I had a very severe finger wagging moment with a minibus tour driver on Princes Street a few years back - Mic in one hand, gesturing to the Castle & sights with other, steering with knees? If you see it happening report to Joan Aitkin - Traffic Commissioner, and the Police.
As I came back via Edinburgh I cycled Waverley to Haymarket and checked over the road and tram lines. Still a potentially dangerous hole Eastbound track slab tight where cyclists might be turning right into St David Street, and I photographed and tweeted the hole I had asked to be reported around 2 weeks ago at the foot of The Mound which could easily bring down a cyclist heading North.
At the crash site the score marks where the bike was dragged along under the minibus were still clearly visible. However immediately before this point the road pavement between the tram rail and the kerb is filled by a manhole where the tarmac has sunken away from the steel frame, so even if studiously avoiding the tram rails another road defect is perfectly placed to bring down a bike. Thus I'd not seize exclusively on the tram rails as a sole factor here, there may be more aspects to consider. Given that the vehicle immediately behind was a Lothian Bus, there should be some clear CCTV record of the sequence of events, right down to the moment the brake lights came on for the minibus relative to the victim falling in front
The manhole is visible in the STV report (picture with Police standing next to it immediately behind minibus.
Eastbound replicated detail with manhole frame and big slot where joint between track slab and road pavement has failed.
I've tweeted now about the hazard further East at The Mound (sunken valve chamber cover) right in the line a cyclist would take Northbound.
Likewise note the continuing poor state and patch repairs where chunks of concrete have come out at the right turn from Princes Street to St David Street, again with a deep defect on the line likely to be taken by a cyclist making right turn (Eastbound track slab).
At Haymarket there is also cracking of the track slabs and and detaching of lumps of concrete, as well as loss of the seals between slab joints and slab edges and road pavement, leaving ridges and slots. These are features which without the presence of tram rails would equally cause the loss of control of a cycle, plus on Athole (Atholl?) Place - Eastbound carriageway abutting the track slab especially - the manhole and other ironwork keeps sinking and breaking out from the road surface, requiring frequent repairs.
My conclusion is that the nature of the supporting sub grade ( a 'beach' over fractured shale) is weak - especially when it gets wet which it will do when the sealed surface is cracking and it has also lost the benefit of 200 years of compaction of the upper layer when the original road was thoroughly dug up to build the track slab and new road alignment, It can often take extensive work to (re-)stabilise disturbed or built-up ground. Arellcat's railway researches revealed that Scotland Street Tunnel had problems with this same geology and the water flowing through it.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Thanks Tulyar. That sunken valve chamber at the foot of the Mound must have been there for nearly 18 months now? I hit it March a year at dusk and nearly came off. Reported it on Fill That Hole but someone else had beaten me to it by a few months.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I also wondered what direction the cyclist was traveling in
Posted 6 years ago #
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