I know I asked for the 'facts', but things are back into unnecessary speculation.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Commuting
Cyclist down (Shandwick Place)
(271 posts)-
Posted 7 years ago #
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I agree with Hankchief's plan.
Pedestrians can easily join as we'll be going at walking pace. Start at Rose St, onto S C St, onto Princes St. Stop outside Rutland just as it becomes Shandwick place for minute's silence, cross road to get to large pavement area outside Fraser's where folk can chat/bomb-burst as required. The whole thing done at walking pace will only take about 3 minutes.
chdot, let's keep this simple. This is primarily a protest about cycling conditions around the tram; obviously there is a larger issue of how all non-motorised modes are catered for, but I don't think we want to broaden the focus at this point.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"chdot, let's keep this simple"
Which is why I was suggesting no mass ride/walk mixed up with rush hour traffic.
"The whole thing done at walking pace will only take about 3 minutes."
That's very optimistic.
We cannot know how many people will turn up.
If 10 people used to such conditions turn up fine.
If a lot more...
"but I don't think we want to broaden the focus at this point"
Yes, though this is not a 'campaign' as such and I don't know if anyone plans to issue a statement/press release. I don't think anyone plans to do a speech.
I'm just trying to spread the idea that it's really not just about cycling/ists, and hope that lots of other people will want to come too just for a few minutes.
Posted 7 years ago # -
For the Roseburn Ride 'we' assembled in Charlotte Square - big space, minimal traffic.
People were arriving over about 20 minutes.
I think the crucial thing here is to make sure people will be at the 'destination' close to 8:30.
Does anyone know what that section of Rose Street is like at that time (mass pedestrians or delivery vehicles)?
Posted 7 years ago # -
I came upon the scene shortly after it had happened @chdot. The minibus was travelling west and I conclude that the cyclist was also. If she had been travelling in the other direction it would have been quite a tumble to fall into the path of the bus given where it was. The bike was mangled directly under the bus. I am glad not to have witnessed the incident - it was bad enough seeing the immediate aftermath.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"Which is why I was suggesting no mass ride/walk mixed up with rush hour traffic."
Personally, I think this is what it will take to send a clear message. A Mass ride. slowing traffic. Stopping for a minute, holding up traffic. Moving on. That will be noticed. That will be commented on. Many will be negative of course, but we can't control that.
If only a dozen or so had turned up to the 'Roseburn Ride' I doubt very much the resulting actions would have been so favourable.
Planners, engineers, politicians and drivers need to apologise for and stop injuring cyclists (and pedestrians).
Cyclists shouldn't feel the need to ask permission to make a protest, nor should consideration of inconveniencing motorists be a factor. IMHO of course.
Apologies if that sounds curt. I'm still angry and can't focus on a more diplomatic choice of words.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Just rode that junction for the first time in a while. Quite apart from the foreboding of riding over the spot where the lady was killed it really is a deathtrap, even at half past ten. There is literally no satisfactory way to negotiate it on a bicycle.
Posted 7 years ago # -
"Cyclists shouldn't feel the need to ask permission to make a protest, nor should consideration of inconveniencing motorists be a factor. IMHO of course."
I'm not trying to not inconvenience motorist. (Not that I'm thinking you think I am!)
I think the reasoning here is to mark a tragic event that (next Wednesday) will be a week on, in a way that is as respectful as possible (one minute silence, minimal fuss).
My main concern is about a ride (or better a push because of the tram tracks) from SC St to S Pl through a set of lights that may well change if there are many people and through a second set (bottom of Lothian Rd.)
By definition this is a random collection of people not an organised event.
I'm sure on the day there will be people willing/able to do some informal marshalling.
Is anyone willing to be contacted by PM to get a list of volunteers (maybe about 10?) and discuss the best way of making this happen where (potential) partipants can feel comfortable?
Posted 7 years ago # -
" Is anyone willing to be contacted by PM to get a list of volunteers"
I am. I was on the Roseburn ride, and PoPs, but this would be the first time I've been involved in this kind of 'unplanned' gathering. I'm also happy to get together over the weekend or Monday on site to go through it.
Posted 7 years ago # -
@Tulyar's post is very useful, as ever.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/14/section/24
allows for a fine of level 2 on the standard scale (£500) should any driver fail to follow these regulations;
http://legislation.data.gov.uk/uksi/1990/1020/made/data.htm?wrap=true
(1) A driver shall not, when a vehicle is in motion, hold a microphone or any attachment thereto unless it is necessary for him, either in an emergency or on grounds of safety, to speak into the microphone.
(2) Subject to paragraph (3), a driver shall not, when a vehicle is in motion, speak to any person either directly or by means of a microphone.
Looks like some tour operators' business models rely on criminality.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I'm not convinced minimising disturbance to motorised traffic sends any message at all.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I'm not convinced minimising disturbance to motorised traffic sends any message at all.
I agree completely, but given that I can't be there to get shouted at/punched/driven into I can't really argue too strongly.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Rose St and the wee lane between South Charlotte St and Hope Street both usually have a regular trickle of delivery-type vehicles around that time.
Posted 7 years ago # -
My regular route is London Road Regent Road Princes Street
I am happy to be PM'd by anyone wanting to join me on Wednesday, with a view to reaching the West End by 8:30
Posted 7 years ago # -
"I'm not convinced minimising disturbance to motorised traffic sends any message at all."
I've been on enough Critical Masses - mostly in London - to know that a mass presence for a prolonged time (usually at least a couple of hours) can have a strong impact.
But for this we are talking about an event marking a week after a particularly catastrophe with all sorts of sensitivities plus at a time when most (potential) participants will be keen not to hang around for long as they have other places to be around 9.
I assume that there will some press willing to turn up - and plenty of social media before and after.
I'm not 'in charge' of this in any sense. Not my idea (but it's a good one).
As long as people can agree on the destination (fixed), time (no-one has said anything other than 8:30) how people get there is individual choice.
Some people will arrive directly just in time. Others may choose to meet at West Register House around 8:10 to see how things are.
Rose Street is clearly an option that suits some people. It doesn't matter that everyone follows the same plan - or any plan other than, I hope/presume, a one minute motionless silence around 8:30 on Shandwick Place.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I would suggest Charlotte square as a better meeting place. If a couple of hundred cyclists turned up there isn't really space for them to congregate safely on Rose Street while letting traffic trickle out.
From Charlotte Square you can then head to South Charlotte Street. If this turn starts on a green light then 4 or 5 confident volunteers could block the north/south traffic flow after the light changes and ensure the whole cycling party gets onto South Charlotte Street together. This seems an easier block to make than turning our of rose street as the traffic will be stationary at red lights when it is asked to stop/is blocked.
Of course at the other end of South Charlotte Street there is also the tram tracks and more traffic which may been stopped to allow a coherent flow of the group.
Posted 7 years ago # -
I spoke to a group of people paying respects at the site. They knew the young woman who was a foreign student. They said that her family were aware of the tragedy and were on their way. Such a waste.
Posted 7 years ago # -
The young lady has been named. She was a medical student.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-40138245
Posted 7 years ago # -
Had a scout around this afternoon.
Of course a lot depends on how many people turn up and what they want to do.
There's room for quite a few people with bikes on Rose Street and it is one way from the East.
West Register House is on the NCN from the West.
Additionally there is a nice bollarded chunk of tarmac on the SE corner of the Charlotte Square gardens.
If some people want to cycle/walk along Princes Street from S Charlotte St. it might be an idea to start from the south side of C Sq and turn right with the lights and mass in the right hand lane then walk from the lights at Princes St along the right hand lane that Shandwick bound trams and buses use.
But a real problem is that the lights can take a long time to change (also at the Lothian Road junction). I suspect there isn't a uniform cycle because it will be affected by the needs of trams.
It would be a good idea to time a trip from Charlotte Sq about 8:20 on Monday and/or Tuesday.
Posted 7 years ago # -
It might be sensible if some cyclists come from the West along Shandwick, perhaps assemble in Coates Cres and (perhaps) follow a tram around 8:25 and stopping just after the pedestrian lights.
Anyone using the 'hidden' route from the canal should remember that Rutland St. is one-way from the East.
Posted 7 years ago # -
A working group for the event is forming, there is quite a lot to arrange so if you would like to be involved please DM either ih or myself and we will add you in.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Posted 7 years ago # -
It might be sensible if some cyclists come from the West along Shandwick, perhaps assemble in Coates Cres and (perhaps) follow a tram around 8:25 and stopping just after the pedestrian lights.
That would suit me.
Posted 7 years ago # -
Please do join the working group if you have opinions or can help in anyway - it's not a clique just a group of people wanting to do something to show the strength of feeling for an uneccesary death on our streets.
We've moved over to Slack as CCE's PM tool was too clunky so please DM us your email address and we'll add you in.
Posted 7 years ago # -
ADMIN EDIT
I have removed this post as it contains too much speculation.
I am aware that poster has more experience than most for interpreting evidence, but I consider it inappropriate here/now.
Chdot
Posted 7 years ago # -
Presume this is at/close to spot where wheel got caught (if that is what happened) -
Posted 7 years ago # -
From Thursday, but I don't think it's been posted -
Posted 7 years ago # -
The floral tribute is very close, it's the closest railings.
A little bit East, as Tulyar's first post mentioned, the scratch marks can be seen between the two tram rails. The road is very narrow there, all the way from the Lothian Road junction past the pedestrian crossing to Shandwick Place itself. There are no road markings to indicate separate lanes, so it is really one lane, with tram lines taking the right portion of that lane and a space to the left that I estimate is 2 metres maximum. If a cyclist is 1 metre from the kerb there is not enough room for anything to pass (motor vehicle or tram) within the guidelines of Operation Close Pass. There has to be some separate infrastructure there from Lothian Road to at least past the pedestrian crossing. There is space but a bit would have to be shaved off the Rutland Place pavement/outdoor drinking area. There is also the legitimate right turn into Queensferry Street that would need to be designed.
Posted 7 years ago # -
In preparation for Wednesday can I ask that CCErs (whether active or lurkers) help produce banners and placards.
If you can bring some to hand out to others that would be ace.
We want it to be a visual as possible so that there is a clear message about what we want rather than just a bunch of angry cyclists.
We can use the Stop Killing Cyclists logo or make something homegrown.
Stop Killing Cyclists by HankChief, on Flickr
Posted 7 years ago #
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