CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Compendium of small barriers to Edinburgh Active Travel

(88 posts)
  • Started 6 years ago by HankChief
  • Latest reply from Arellcat

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  1. HankChief
    Member

    In a twitter exchange trying to get the Craigmount Steps changed, our new Transport Convenor, Lesley McInnes has asked for details of other small items that make Active Travel harder than it needs to be.

    So here's our chance to crowd source a list for her.

    Please post here with sufficient detail that it will be understood what & where the problem is and why it causes such a problem (so it can be prioritsed).

    Photos and/or links to Streetview would be most helpful.

    After the weekend I'll package up and send on.

    Obviously they can't promise to get them all sorted but it should at least give them a list to work on.

    Thanks

    Posted 6 years ago #
  2. HankChief
    Member

    @chdot started a Ward by Ward list a couple of weeks ago. They can be found here.

    This list will need more details and less assumed knowledge.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    Good to get early 'engagement' with new convenor.

    Was a bit slow to appear on Twitter and has now said "Great to get suggestions and reasons why. Easiest by email.Thanks."

    Of course 'we' emailed plenty of suggestions to Lesley H.

    She took an early interest in the Broomhouse cycle route, though not aware of any significant improvements.

    The nebulous changes surrounding the (apparent) end of Neighbourhood Partnerships mean that now it's easential to get some 'quick win' ideas to her AND find out who is responsible for making them happen BUT ALSO getting a better understanding of how this week's nonsense on Dundee Street came about.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  4. chdot
    Admin

    Reminded (via Twitter) that CycleScape is a good place to 'collect' stuff -

    https://edinburgh.cyclescape.org/#recent-threads

    I am well aware that it's not the most user friendly system, but worth a look.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  5. neddie
    Member

    Put in the cycle exemptions in all one-way streets, as was promised decades ago.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  6. kaputnik
    Moderator

    There was a "list for Lesley" thread started when she took over as transport convenor. I wonder how much of it was ever ticked off.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  7. chdot
    Admin

    "list for Lesley" thread

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12646

    Posted 6 years ago #
  8. HankChief
    Member

    For this to work, we're going to need sufficient detail of the current issues that they can be assessed on difficulty to deliver and benefit, so that they can be prioritisedone by CEC.

    Previous discussions on here are helpful but it will need someone to take on turning them into something understandable. If it matters to you it should matter enough that you have a few minutes to detail what you think needs to change...

    It would obviously be easier if all ideas were collated on the same place but at the end of the day it doesn't matter if they get multiple inputs from differing stakeholders. I'm offering to collate a list on here, others may want to do their own thing, but if nobody raises it then CEC won't know about it.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  9. Luath
    Member

    The part of the signed cycle route (14?) that runs from the ramp off Lindsay road to the roundabout at Ocean Terminal/Holiday Inn is a disaster zone.
    In no particular order: poor surface, flooding, poor lighting, broken glass, piles of rubble on the road, unmarked bollards, coaches parked both sides of the road, two-way cement truck traffic, a junction with a stop line that nobody obeys, bits of cycle lanes that are poorly marked and suddenly stop...

    Posted 6 years ago #
  10. mgj
    Member

    Poorly maintained setts (and road surfaces generally). Expensive bike facilities that solve problems that don't exist. Lack of ambition to target problem parking. (CEC funds police officers to tackle youth crime, so why not double and triple parking?)

    And can I downvote cycling the wrong way on one way streets? Dangerous and looks like cyclist scofflaw behaviour without a major education campaign.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  11. Luath
    Member

    Access to the Roseburn Path from Russell Road at the zig-zags needs improved. Option 1 is to cut across the Sauchiebank junction which involves negotiating traffic travelling towards you on Russell Road, traffic emerging from the industrial estate to the left, traffic on Sauchiebank and the impatient traffic behind you. All so that you can join a bit of pavement obstructed by sign posts which is notionally shared use but there's nothing to mark it as such.
    Option 2 is to turn right at the corner adjancent to the bottom of the zig-zags and risk getting taken out by corner cutting traffic or impatient drivers behind (although I have to concede that the situation has improved since the double yellows were extended in this area). A traffic island refuge would be great.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  12. kaputnik
    Moderator

    chicane barriers on Crawford Bridge make it very difficult at the north side to get onto the bridge as it's a short, steep rise through a tight chicane. Try it with a loaded bike / child seat / trailer / in the wrong gear / with pedestrians coming the other way and you're destined to fail. Either replace with bollard or just keep the chicane at the south end where it's flat and easier to negotiate (but widen it still.)

    A matter of replacing 2 gates with 2 bollards, everybody wins.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    "A matter of replacing 2 gates with 2 bollards, everybody wins."

    Except bollards unlikely to be considered 'workable' or match days.

    Best to ask for documented justification of this and every other 'improvement' - and paper trail of consultations plus costs, cost benefit, and which budget paid for it...

    Posted 6 years ago #
  14. sallyhinch
    Member

    In Dumfries, we're using CycleScape for this sort of thing (in collaboration with the council). Allows you to put problems on a map, add photos, links etc., and even prioritise issues. Might be a bit of overkill for the task in hand, but potentially useful over time

    Posted 6 years ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

    "Previous discussions on here are helpful but it will need someone to take on turning them into something understandable. If it matters to you it should matter enough that you have a few minutes to detail what you think needs to change..."

    I presume various people will add pet projects here (and perhaps CycleScape), but I think a list of things to be acted on (by new Transport Convenor) should also include some (mutual) understanding of why things are so piecemeal and unambitious and why that needs to change and how it can be achieved.

    And of course this isn't just about 'cycling'!

    Posted 6 years ago #
  16. Frenchy
    Member

    @HankChief - useful, thanks for posting. Do you have any sort of deadline/timescale?

    Will post my wee list later, but happy to spend some time collecting photos and writing some details about each problem if there's time to do so.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

    Fundamentally this is about (to use the cliche) People and Places.

    It's not about facilitating traffic flow (even for bicycles).

    Whether the new Council has the vision, or will, remains to be seen.

    'Easy wins' are a useful start, but the Convenor needs to be shown a bigger picture (most European cities, New York etc.)

    Edinburgh is currently led by the Party in charge at Holyrood. What chance of some laws - and more funding - to really prioritise ActiveTravel??

    Posted 6 years ago #
  18. GDR
    Member

    There is good cycle route from the corner of Rutland Square over the Western Approach Road, past the EICC and through to Fountainbridge and the canal. HOWEVER the access from Rutland Square is hopeless with no dropped kerb and a very tight and narrow path (maybe it's for wheelchair users?) up to the switchback ramp by Standard Life. Access to Rutland Square itself is also poor if you are travelling from the North of Princes Street or Shandwick Place. Could something be done here e.g. cycling allowed on Stafford Street from Melville Street with a path connecting to the crossing already there then a segregated cycle path on the part of Canning Street that connects Shandwick Place and Rutland Square. An improved ramp to the Bridge over the WAR would also be good. One could then cycle from the East End of George Street through Charlotte Square and the west end and over to the canal whilst avoiding much of the tram tracks and the nightmare junction at the bottom of Lothian Road.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  19. HankChief
    Member

    Right. I'm going to be decisive again...

    The comments above are good but hard to know exactly the what, where and why for each day them.

    Don't think they will be easy to understand if we send them like this to the Cllr McInnes.

    Can we try logging them on Cyclescape instead?

    https://edinburgh.cyclescape.org/

    Have a go and let us know how easy or otherwise it is. Pictures etc would be helpful.

    @Frenchy - The next Transport Committee is 10th August, so we have a little time. Can I set a deadline of Friday 7th July and I will work out how to package them over next weekend. Anyone with any experience of Cyclescape us welcome to offer advice.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  20. chdot
    Admin

    "I will work out how to package them over next weekend"

    Select a few examples and highlight CS - and the way it's used by @sallyhinch + @DandGonline (hope CEC adopts too!)

    http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17876#post-254038

    Posted 6 years ago #
  21. chdot
    Admin

    No idea if this action was taken because it was put on CS -

    https://edinburgh.cyclescape.org/threads/3285

    Posted 6 years ago #
  22. Frenchy
    Member

    Some of these I have already been in touch with councillors/council officers about (mostly positive responses, but not always had a response). I'll add them to cyclescape, with photos, later:

    Gayfield Square - City Centre - Rubber kerbs prevent cyclists from easily cutting through to Gayfield Street. Double yellows need to be retained to prvent parked cars blocking access as well.

    Old Dalkeith Road - Liberton/Gilmerton - (i) A toucan crossing should be put in between Inch Park and the Bridgend allotments. There are currently no controlled crossings between Cameron Toll and the Royal Infirmary. (ii) The timing of the signals at the Ferniehill Road junction could also be changed. Currently, you need to use three separate pelican crossings to get from one side of the road to the other, and this can take several minutes. (iii) The road markings at the junction between Old Dalkeith Road and Little France Cottages should be repainted. Adding a bike lane would also be an improvement. (iv) Just south of Little France Road, the southbound bike lane on Old Dalkeith Road is appalling. It's alongside a parking bay, but the parking bay isn't wide enough for cars to fit into it without them sticking into the bike lane. Even if it was, "dooring" would still be a significant hazard. The bike lane really needs to be wider and further away from parked cars. If this isn't possible, I think it would be better to have no cycle lane at all. (v) Further south on Old Dalkeith Road, the southbound cycle lane disappears at the pinch points caused by traffic islands. The cycle lanes should get wider through the pinch point. East Lothian Council has done this (on Linkfield Road in Musselburgh, for example), and Edinburgh really needs to follow suit. (vi) The path between Ferniehill Road and The Wisp should be designated a shared use path, as impatient drivers make cycling on the road dangerous.

    Russell Road - Sighthill/Gorgie - Southbound drivers have a worrying tendency to cut the corner just before the railway bridge. This endangers cyclists northbound cyclists trying to turn right to get onto the Roseburn Path. A traffic island should be placed at this corner to prevent drivers cutting the corner. The double yellows must also be retained.

    Gilmerton Road - Liberton/Gilmerton - The pavement on the west side of Gilmerton Road, just to the south of the junction with Moredun Dykes Road, has a gap in it which should be fixed. I think this dates from when the entrance to the dentist's car park was on Gilmerton Road. Unfortunately there aren't even dropped kerbs, so the pavement poses difficulties for anyone with limited mobility.

    Candlemaker's Park - Liberton/Gilmerton - A gate or hole in the fence should be installed to allow access between Candlemaker's Park and Drum Avenue.

    Ferniehill Drive - Liberton/Gilmerton - At the west end of Ferniehill Drive, there is a gap between the end of the bus lane and the start of the bike lane. Drivers tend to move left when the bus lane ends, not realising there's a bike lane up ahead, and this makes filtering difficult. The cycle lane should be extended to meet the bus lane.

    Dumbiedykes - Southside/Newington - (i) At the bottom of Braidwood Gate, a dropped kerb should be installed so that cyclists don't need to dismount to get onto/from Dumbiedykes Road. (ii) The steps for accessing Queen's Drive from Dumbiedykes Road should either be replaced with or augmented by a ramp.

    Hill Place - Southside/Newington - Parking/loading should not be allowed in the contraflow bike lane. Drivers are often unaware that there even is a contraflow bike lane, and parked cars force cyclists to enter the oncoming lane, which causes conflict and endangers them. Ideally the bike lane would also be mandatory rather than advisory. There are probably similar problems with other contraflow bike lanes in the city.

    Telfer subway - Fountainbridge/Craiglockhart - There's a rather deep gutter along the edges of Telfer Subway, which makes it difficult for cyclists to turn into the path along to Dalry Road. I imagine the gutter poses even bigger problems for wheelchair users and others of limited mobility. A cover should be put over the gutter at this point.

    Everywhere - There are a lot of barriers/chicanes on footpaths and cyclepaths which make it difficult for people with mobility issues to use these paths. They are also tricky for children on bikes to navigate, or if you are pushing a bike. Some examples are the footpath between Moredun Park View and Moredun Park Gardens, the footpath between Gracemount Drive and Burnhead Loan, and the footpath at the end of Glenallan Drive. These should all be removed or widened.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  23. Snowy
    Member

    I don't know if the council have any power over it but the Craigleith retail park signs surely belong on here too. http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=16940&page=3

    Posted 6 years ago #
  24. Snowy
    Member

    May I add the NO CYCLING painted on the path in Magdalene Glen? I don't believe this is even legal.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  25. Frenchy
    Member

    It's not - the council has said will be removed.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  26. Frenchy
    Member

    Cyclescaped the above list (tried not to add ones which are already on there, but probably doubled at least one). Will try and add photos at some point.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  27. toomanybikes
    Member

    3 off the top of my head

    At the top of the innocent tunnel towards town there should really be 2 gaps in the gate to get rid of the pointless pinch point. The current gap is pretty narrow and over to the side too with a small pot hole inside the tunnel which can be a touch hairy at times.

    Inch park speed bumps could be lowered at the sides to make cycling through the park better, as they are at one side of the road anyway.

    The chicane on the path between Old Dalkeith Road and Peffermill Road is overly difficult to navigate too, I've seen some minor bumps into it following other cyclists.

    The

    Posted 6 years ago #
  28. Snowy
    Member

    Whitson Road - the bike-only cut-throughs at the east and west ends. The bike cut-throughs are up against the kerbs, and the lack of parking restrictions means these are completely blocked 95% of the time - see pic. A 1.5m cut-through in the centre of the barrier would solve the problem. Alternatively, dropped kerbs so that bikes can filter through the bollards.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  29. Frenchy
    Member

    @Snowy - that change is planned already: https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/sfc/design-cycle-walk-saughton-park-quietroute-8/

    Posted 6 years ago #
  30. neddie
    Member

    @Frenchy

    Yes, but what will stop them parking in the centre and blocking the cut through in the new scheme?

    Posted 6 years ago #

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