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Edinburgh Cycle Hire Scheme

(1576 posts)
  • Started 6 years ago by Harts Cyclery
  • Latest reply from boghall

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  1. chdot
    Admin

    “What the hell is going on? The policy is there. The cash is there. This should be the easiest of easy wins - no need for TROs, no concerned residents to deal with, established operators who could step in quickly with tried and tested systems.”

    Well apart from the perpetual ’Gov policy doesn’t always become LA action’.

    Is there any issue with Capital v Revenue?

    Certainly issues with “subsidy” - which comes from the mindset that some things are largely immune from considerations about ‘profit/break even’ or even ‘value for money’ - eg schools, roads etc.

    SA says -

    The challenge we face, however, is that each of the options I have considered would need non-trivial levels of public subsidy.

    “In the coming weeks I will publish costed proposals and I hope to be able to work with all of Edinburgh’s political parties to agree a way forward. Given the cuts the SNP/Green Government is forcing on Edinburgh, however, it is clear to me that substantial private sponsorship will be needed to ensure the success of any scheme.”

    Question is, is he ‘politically’ saying ‘voters wouldn’t agree to subsidising bikes’ - which might not actually be the case - or merely accepting ‘that’s the way finance is done?

    In addition is it really TRANSPORT officials recommending ‘stop looking at options’?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. Morningsider
    Member

    Given the cuts the SNP/Green Government is forcing on Edinburgh
    Oh, do give it a rest Scott. The funds available for active travel are going up every year. These funds are effectively ring-fenced, meaning they cannot be spent on anything other than active travel.

    Are Scottish Government funds available for supporting cycle hire schemes? I don't know, but it is now Scottish Government policy to do so. Perhaps rather than trying to score cheap political points he could ask Patrick Harvie if he could make this happen (or get an MSP colleague to do so).

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

    Maybe CEC shouldn’t be involved…

    Posted 1 year ago #
  4. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    "Maybe CEC shouldn’t be involved…"

    100% this, unfortunately

    Glasgow, Aberdeen, Stirling, Dundee (e-bikes), Belfast all able to do it, but ThisIsEdinburgh

    Posted 1 year ago #
  5. chdot
    Admin

    There is potentially a bit of a debate about that as to we got what the Council procured. Which I’m told emphasised and accepted nice stuff on electronic tracking and the like over increased security. I am reasonably confident the Council has now learnt on that issue.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/cllrwhyte/status/1593624418110038019?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  6. chdot
    Admin

    OK, not Ed!

    Get 24 hours of free bike hire with Brompton Bike Hire in Inverness, Elgin and Oban when you use the code SCOTRAIL.

    Find out more about this, and other great offers here: https://scotrail.co.uk/plan-your-journey/cycling/plan-your-cycle-rail-journey

    https://mobile.twitter.com/scotrail/status/1595708426503553025

    Posted 1 year ago #
  7. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Have been seeing a lot of Uni Cycles about, perhaps remarkably so given there's only 50 of them, and allocated to individuals in halls.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

    The council previously acknowledged the ECHS as the fastest growing scheme in Britain with 234,500 trips made in 2020. CoMoUK recently issued guidance to councils urging them to treat bike share as a key part of their sustainable transport offer and ensure there is sufficient funding for it to be developed to support all communities. The charity said potential funding gaps can be plugged through a flexible allocation of capital funding.

    https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2022/12/transport-charity-says-edinburgh-will-be-left-behind-without-a-cycle-hire-scheme/

    Posted 1 year ago #
  9. LaidBack
    Member

    Research by CoMoUK found cycling in Edinburgh increased sharply following its introduction with a 70 per cent rise in the number of trips through the scheme in 2019.
    The council previously acknowledged the ECHS as the fastest growing scheme in Britain with 234,500 trips made in 2020.

    That maybe explains reluctance to get it back. Very narrow bike lanes really can't cope with too much cycling! I've often thought that a constant 5% of modal share keeps cycling in a minority zone and avoids having to increase capacity anywhere.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  10. chdot
    Admin

    The government contract specialist firm Serco has extended its contract to operate London’s Santander Cycles scheme.

    Hampshire-based Serco, an international contractor for government services in a variety of sectors, has signed a new three-year deal with Transport for London (TfL) maintain and distribute London’s cycle hire bikes, including the newly introduced e-bikes.

    Sam Jones, Serco’s micromobility director, said: “At Serco we are extremely proud of our long-standing support for the London cycle hire scheme and relationship with TfL, having been responsible for the scheme’s initial design, build and operation and more recently the supply, maintenance and distribution of the bikes. This new contract extension will continue the relationship, support the introduction of the new e-bikes, and deliver over £2m in operational savings for TfL.”

    https://www.micromobilitybiz.com/government-contract-firm-serco-extends-deal-to-operate-santander-cycles/amp/

    Posted 1 year ago #
  11. Morningsider
    Member

    Just remember - the Edinburgh cycle hire scheme was binned (page 19) for want of a £1.2m one-off investment and £0.5m per year revenue support. In transport project terms that would usually be considered a rounding error.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  12. Tulyar
    Member

    The bidding for London's scheme (opening 18 months after Brompton Hire started at Waterloo Station (2009), and 2 years after OYBike closed down their London operation (also 2009) originally had 6 prequalified bidders but narrowed down to Clear Channel (with schemes already running in several cities since 1997) and a combined bid from Serco (who had the money) and Bixi (just about to launch their system in Canada)

    Other bidders had dropped out - a number because the TfL spec would not work with their systems & liabilities for non delivery were significant. TfL also changed the Bixi spec from fast to set up bolt-down units (which could be moved or added to) to major installations. I think Clear Channel were relieved to see Serco win the contract

    Serco now operating Beryl Bikes for WM scheme

    Santander branding for Nextbikes in Milton Keynes, Ride-On in Leicester, plus some University schemes, as well as Pashley made bikes for London operated by Serco

    Posted 1 year ago #
  13. chdot
    Admin

    The political decision to scrap the cycle hire scheme will be costly to reverse, not least due to the cuts we face. Sponsorship may help, but external funding (Scot Gov) will offer the best chance of success.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/cllrscottarthur/status/1609214996273328133?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  14. Morningsider
    Member

    As an academic, I'm sure Councillor Arthur is very careful with terminology. Interesting to see that he considers "political decisions" and "Councillor Arthur decisions" to be two different things.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  15. chdot
    Admin

    “two different things”

    No doubt.

    Presumably he’s referring to a pre May ‘22 decision(?)

    Interesting that, for once, he isn’t blaming the “previous administration”…

    I was under the impression that the decision about reviving/not the scheme was due to be ‘early next year’.

    Maybe I missed it?

    Posted 1 year ago #
  16. gembo
    Member

    Spotted a hire bike that has recently been fished out of the canal, craiglockhart way. This Morning on way into Alpkit to pick up my Shakedry repair from Seamstress Betty

    WoL path and towpath hoaching with new year resolutioners.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  17. chdot
    Admin

  18. chdot
    Admin

    Tomorrow I will publish a detailed report on what it would cost to resurrect Edinburgh's failed bike hire scheme.

    https://twitter.com/cllrscottarthur/status/1618521622960373762

    Posted 1 year ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

  20. chdot
    Admin

    4.6 Based on stakeholder feedback during the review in 2022, it was agreed that a dock-based solution would be required to best meet the Principal Scheme Objectives and therefore the analysis has not assessed options for a dockless solution.

    4.24 The outcome of the options appraisal is that the scheme which best fits the objectives of the project is Option E1, which consists of 140 Docking Stations, 1,120 bikes and 420 e-bikes, and that a scheme is procured and operated on the basis of a Managed Service (Option 1). This is because Option E is best aligned with the Principal Scheme Objectives and is the most attractive option for a potential sponsor. While more expensive than Option E (2b), it provides the Council with significantly more control over areas such as docking station locations; sponsorship procurement and arrangements; tariff structure; and operational requirements and service levels.

    5.1 The next steps will depend on which option the Council decides to proceed with.

    6. Financial impact

    6.1 The option appraisal sets out a preferred option for a cycle hire scheme consisting of 140 docking stations, 1,120 bikes and 420 e-bikes (Option E) and that the scheme is procured and operated on the basis of a Managed Service
    (Option1). This would require initial capital investment of £8.36m and an annual revenue subsidy of £2.08m.

    6.2 The loans charges associated with the capital investment over a 5-year period would be a principal amount of £8.36m and interest of £1.2m, resulting in a total cost of £9.56m based on an assumed loans fund interest rate of 4%. This
    represents annual loans charges of £1.92m, taking the total annual revenue requirement to £4.0m.

    6.3 On 27 May 2021, the Council approved investment of £2.3m, over four years from 2021/22, to meet the cost of the then existing bike scheme. This was superseded when the scheme ended in September 2021 with the Transport and Environment Committee subsequently utilising part of that funding for the purposes set out in paragraph 3.3. The remaining funding includes one off allocations of £0.5m in 2023/24, £0.5m in 2024/25 and £0.210 in 2025/26 and this has been put forward by officers as a proposed revenue budget saving in the Revenue Budget Framework 2023-27 report to the Finance and Resource Committee on 7 February 2023.

    6.4 If the above is approved, there will be no funding for a new scheme within the revenue budget framework or sustainable capital budget strategy. Therefore, should the Council seek to progress any option, provision would have to be made in both the capital and revenue budget setting process for Financial Year 2023/24 and beyond. As the project would commit the Council to significant costs for at least five years, any investment would be dependent on a balanced medium-term budget revenue budget.
    6.5 Section 6.6 of Appendix 1 details potential external funding routes for the project based on engagement completed in February 2022, but these are unlikely to meet the full cost.

    In other words (perhaps) ‘CEC can’t afford it unless SG pays’.

    And/or

    ‘The basic premise of a stand-alone, self-financing scheme is inappropriate in transport and climate terms’…

    Posted 1 year ago #
  21. Tulyar
    Member

    The figure being quoted seems ridiculous, compared with figures I've come across elsewhere, and the scale of starting up seems daft when compared to the incremental delivery that seems to be working well in Inverness, which started with just 30 bikes

    There are already bikes (all EAPC) operating in E/Mid Lothian, and even 'leaking' into the SE 'wedge'

    The Glasgow scheme is making some valuable reductions in 'transport poverty' by getting bikes available to those who need 'wheels' to get to work, or other activities

    Serco had some difficulty in marrying their corporate structure with a local cycle promotion operation, whilst Glasgow & Stirling have local hubs where staff are trained and can go on to further employment. Glasgow has sensibly matched the same model as Edinburgh Fringe, keeping the charity separate from the trading operation (Motion Forward) that manages the contract with Nextbike

    Training technicians is much the same way that the first major scheme in Europe (Copenhagen 1995) was set up and ran for 19 years in its original free to use form. Trainees went on to work in cycle shops or as maintenance staff and breaking the Catch 22 of needing a job to get a reference ... to get a job

    I've been doing this public bike hire gig since 1996, when the Portsmouth and Rotterdam schemes were set up as part of the EU VIVALDI mobility project - using RFID cards (ie bus passes, bank cards, staff i/d cards) to hire bikes.

    In 2009 the Brompton Hire started with a very simple arrangement at Waterloo (100 bikes on near continuous hire), and I worked to get the automated lockers launched in 2011 (now with 3 locations funded by Hitrans at Elgin, Inverness and Oban, cleverly NOT located on Network Rail land, but sites close to the stations, which were easier and faster to get delivered)

    Typically a basic (not EAPC) bike costs around £1000-£1500 to put on the street with Nextbike, Bewegen and Beryl having the flexibility and savings through having a hybrid system. This means fixed docking points, plus geo-fenced locations to 'park' bikes off-hire, a detail quickly taken on board by Call-a-Bike, which began operating in 2001, and part of the Bewegen (Canadian) offer for their EAPC - no regular bikes - (Inverness, Fort William, Forth Valley, and E/M Lothian)

    Dundee has Ride-on (Spanish)- all fixed docks, with Nextbike (German) in Glasgow & Stirling

    For some schemes I can use an RFID card, and have enabled my bus pass as the way to hire bikes, hire cars, and use buses

    Any Edinburgh scheme could start in a small way, as a reprise of the Go-Ebike project that #sestran trialled, and which was I believe very popular with Scottish Government staff nipping between Victoria Quay and St Andrews House

    As an example the Bewegen scheme around Mussleburgh could 'leak' though Sheriffhall P&R (& Shawfair Station)/Newcraighall P&R/Station to ride in to the ERI/BioQuarter, or a large employer/journey generator might have a 'local' inter-site operation that can be integrated with a larger scheme as these develop.

    An Edinburgh scheme might also offer the bikes to bus pass users, to boost use, and generate base revenue - bike trips would be cheaper than the % paid for bus fares, and the promotion of healthy activity for over 60's could have a value?

    Remember too that the branding on a bike can be sold - an advertiser gets about 40 bikes all over the town, for the same price as a single poster on a bus shelter.....

    Don't discount the Brompton Hire detail either. Setting up a 8 locker (can grow to 16 with additional unit) base requires a footprint of 1.6 sq and units can be relocated relatively easily - if the solar panel power and 4g signal are sound then the units are 'wireless' (intended that way). Because bikes are usually hired for several 24 hour periods, my early estimate was that one 'locker' could support around 4 bikes out on hire, provided that the local agent and users work together to manage the locations. The unit at Kings Cross (neatly NOT on Network Rail's site) was supporting around 20 bikes from 8 lockers last I had a report

    So that's my plan, which experience (around 27 years) indicates as a possible solution, might deliver for Edinburgh

    Noting from CoMoUK surveys - approaching 30 years of data for car sharing, and slightly less for bikes, we should also be connecting with bus and rail operators, as bikes fill in those gaps where bus operation is less viable ... and rail stations are never right at your door... unless you are the Duke of Sutherland with your own station & train!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  22. Morningsider
    Member

    @Tulyar - amazing to have someone with your experience commenting on this.

    Good to hear you think the figures quoted are ridiculous. I don't understand how council officers reported a few months ago that the serco scheme would have needed revenue support of £500,000 a year, but a largely similar new scheme will now apparently need revenue support of £2m annually. Something doesn't add up.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    “Something doesn't add up.”

    The following suggestion may be libellous -

    Consultants make stuff up in line with what the commissioner expects to hear…

    Posted 1 year ago #
  24. chdot
    Admin

    Return of Edinburgh cycle hire scheme 'unlikely' as cost estimated at £20m

    https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/return-edinburgh-cycle-hire-scheme-26094724

    Posted 1 year ago #
  25. Morningsider
    Member

    @chdot - agreed, looks like SA simply doesn't want a cycle hire scheme. I have found an interesting document from CoMoUK (the national organisation for shared transport):

    Bike share guidance for local authorities: November 2022

    Which estimates maximum capital set up costs for a city of Edinburgh's size of £3.1m to £7.75m and annual revenue support of £300,000. It also sets out many options for much cheaper schemes.

    The Edinburgh figures seem so far out of whack with this that they must have been inflated on purpose - presumably so the scheme can then be rejected on cost grounds.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  26. mcairney
    Member

    “a proposed 1,540 bicycles and 140 docking stations” is it just me or does this seem excessive. Not sure what the scale of the JustEat Bikes got to but I’d hazard a guess at about 1/10th- 1/5th of this.
    Also IMO this scheme is exactly the sort of thing we should be spending our active travel budget on, and we can then use data from it to plan future cycle routes

    Posted 1 year ago #
  27. Frenchy
    Member

    Not sure what the scale of the JustEat Bikes got to but I’d hazard a guess at about 1/10th- 1/5th of this.

    Struggling to find actual numbers, rather than promises from press releases.

    The initial launch had ~200 bikes and ~20 stations, and a promise of 1000 by the end of 2018. I don't think it ever reached 1000 bikes, but it definitely expanded quite a bit in 2019 and 2020. I'd guess it peaked at ~600 bikes and ~100 stations, even with minimal coverage in the south and west of the city.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  28. Morningsider
    Member

    @Frenchy - decent guess there. Serco figures are 750 bikes and 95 docking stations. Council figures are 600 regular bikes and 150 e-bikes at scheme closure.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  29. chdot
    Admin

    Apparently this is due to be expanded -

    GO e-Bike hubs are now open in East Lothian and Midlothian. They are part of a mini network of four stations with up to forty state of the art e-Bikes. The hubs are located at Brunton Hall in Musselburgh, Musselburgh rail station, Eskbank Station and Jarnac Court in Dalkeith. Location map here:

    https://goebike.uk/map

    https://goebike.scot/go-e-bike-east-lothian-midlothian/

    Posted 1 year ago #
  30. Tulyar
    Member

    I see that the map has a boundary that seems to land in the Bioquarter, and Newcraighall

    Bewegen bikes are a Hybrid system and can be parked/returned to a geofenced virtual hub. This is the case with HiBikes in Inverness, where the staff at Raigmore Hospital can put a bike off hire at a pop-up virtual location and collect one later to ride back to town (3.5Km)

    In first 3 months around 40% of hires were for journeys between Inverness Station and Raigmore

    I wonder if that map boundary might drift slightly West into Petty France?

    I think SpokesPorty might even have some interest in this issue

    My spies have already done some route testing (for the pioneers who can tolerate a bit of mud plugging before a paved path gets laid its ready now)

    Should I be nudging Bewegen to adopt the Nelson stance?

    Posted 1 year ago #

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