CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

Edinburgh Cycle Hire Scheme

(1600 posts)
  • Started 7 years ago by Harts Cyclery
  • Latest reply from bakky

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  1. pringlis
    Member

    Yes, sorry - I should have said virtual docking/parking zones like the ones they're testing on the high street.

    I suspect there'd be more pushback to bike zones on pavements now than a few years ago, especially from disability charities who've been pushing for cutting back on street clutter. Seems more sensible to leave them on the carriageway, by reallocating some parking spaces. Maybe Cllr Arthur will drop feed more on that... If opening in 2025 then just over a year sounds right for that, given we aren't far from 2024 now!

    Posted 1 year ago #
  2. Morningsider
    Member

    I think the Council could probably use an Experimental TRO to designate on-road hire bike parking spots, which could be up and running in a matter of days. The consultation would then take place while the scheme was in operation.

    Posted 1 year ago #
  3. chdot
    Admin

  4. chdot
    Admin

    I’m talking about Glasgow City Council’s booming cycle hire scheme – along with positive vibes from its Edinburgh counterpart, which I’m told is “very optimistic indeed” it can finally revive a rental system in the capital.

    I find it extraordinary that Edinburgh has been without a scheme for three years after the Just Eat-sponsored operation run by original London scheme providers Serco ended over funding in the face of significant vandalism problems.

    But I hear there may be positive news in April, with two firms – Lime and Dott – offering a service at no cost to the council. Fingers crossed it’s second time lucky.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20240229161223/https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/glasgow-ovo-bikes-hire-schemes-soaraway-success-an-example-to-edinburgh-alastair-dalton-4535129

    Billions for trams nothing for cycle hire.

    #ThisIsEdinburgh

    Posted 8 months ago #
  5. Morningsider
    Member

    "At no cost to the Council" - I suspect they will get exactly what they pay for.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  6. neddie
    Member

    Can you imagine if they provided road maintenance "at no cost to the council"?

    Well I guess they could allow private companies (like junk food corporations) to charge tolls, and obliterate the city with advertising, to keep the roads repaired... would that work?

    Posted 8 months ago #
  7. Morningsider
    Member

    The cost of the tram extension business case could support an improved Edinburgh cycle hire scheme for the next 80+ years.

    This is based on the stated £44m cost of the tram business case and ongoing revenue support for the cycle hire scheme of £0.5m per year, plus £1.3m capital investment for improved security and other tweaks, which was calculated by CEC at the end of the Just Eat cycle hire scheme.

    Add inflation and I reckon you would still get at least 40+ years. The cycle hire scheme could be on the streets within months.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  8. chdot
    Admin

  9. doorsgalaxy
    Member

    "At no cost to the Council" was also the supposed MO of the original Just Eat Cycle scheme. Serco covered all the up-front capital and revenue costs, and CEC/TfE provided officer support to get sponsorship / other external funding in place, and arrange installation of docks etcs. The only reason I can see the likes of Lime being more successful is that it's propped up by VC cash. Lime only turned a profit for the first time last year.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  10. Tulyar
    Member

    Surprised that Lime might be able to comply with stricter Scottish requirements per Section 97 Road Sc Act 1984 - to operate under a street trading licence - with T&C & KPI on managing bikes on street

    Interesting that Glasgow & Stirling using very much the model I have liked in 28 years of working on public bike hire schemes, with local bike projects delivering local maintenance & management for a world wide system, operating in around 30 countries

    Nose diving in Scotland/UK have been Serco, Ride On & Bewegen

    Brompton Hire has seen 4 hire docks going in at Oban, Inverness, Elgin & Stornoway with a long term leasing deal that works out from around £1.50/day

    Best bet for Edinburgh might be to start with smaller site specific details (eg EDI & showground or Bioquarter/ERI/Shawfair Station/A 720 P&R)

    As per Stirling perhaps Edinburgh can work with Saughton college of crimimality & correction to deliver cycle hire scheme with local management staff

    Posted 8 months ago #
  11. chdot
    Admin

    Hi, thank you for asking. We are currently not able to confirm that Lime Bikes will be available in Edinburgh in the near future.

    https://twitter.com/_limeaid/status/1771134071264940168

    Posted 8 months ago #
  12. Arellcat
    Moderator

    Interesting that Glasgow & Stirling using very much the model I have liked in 28 years of working on public bike hire schemes... Nose diving in Scotland/UK have been Serco, Ride On & Bewegen

    I've heard that Nextbike in Glasgow has raised its prices and personal membership is £24/month, and a 20 minute hire is now £2. That's a lot. Annual memberships seem to have been removed for new users but grandfathered for existing users.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  13. boghall
    Member

    Bike share shouldn't be a bellwether of cycling progress. The economics are poor globally except in specific circumstances, which Edinburgh only really satisfies over summer. It can work more widely, but commonly requires permanent subsidy, money which may be better spent (i.e. engender more new cycling & higher RoI) encouraging those who already have access to a bike (the great majority) to get back on it...

    Posted 8 months ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

    “Bike share shouldn't be a bellwether of cycling progress.”

    That’s (probably!) true in Ed.

    “permanent subsidy”

    Which of course is why CEC is keen on ‘at no cost to taxpayers’. Sounds good, but many things are ‘subsidised’ often with much less controversy. Of course it all depends on ‘objectives’. May or may not be a good idea for CEC to subsidise a bike hire scheme.

    “money which may be better spent (i.e. engender more new cycling & higher RoI) encouraging those who already have access to a bike (the great majority) to get back on it...”

    Presume you mean better infrastructure?

    If so, would hope those without bikes can benefit too.

    But apart from ‘capital v revenue’ and ‘different budgets’ no idea if any comparative CBAs have been done for bike hire, infrastructure or rampant provision for car use!

    Posted 8 months ago #
  15. Morningsider
    Member

    @boghall - it might surprise you, but 'the great majority' of people do not have access to a bike in Scotland. 62.5% of Scottish households did not have access to an adult bike in 2022. 16% had access to one bike, 13.5% to two and 8% to three or more.

    As ever, the distribution is not even. 79% of households in the 20% most deprived areas had no access to a bike, compared to 44% in the least deprived 20% of areas.

    Source: Transport and Travel in Scotland 2022, Social Survey table 18a.

    Posted 8 months ago #
  16. boghall
    Member

    @Morningsider It does surprise me a little, as I was quoting numbers I thought I'd read a few years back but inevitably now can't find. It's reported as 47% in England (Statista), though Shimano's figures are close to yours at 37%. I entirely agree that as in so much else, inequity is an issue.
    Still, the substantive point stands: there's a colossal fleet of bicycles sitting unused in sheds nationwide that will always dwarf by 1-2 orders of magnitude any conceivable share fleet (conservatively in Edinburgh 112k of them: 238k households x .47, ignoring multiple ownership).

    Posted 7 months ago #
  17. neddie
    Member

    Würzburg, Germany

    Posted 3 months ago #
  18. neddie
    Member

    Kitzinger, Franconia

    Posted 3 months ago #
  19. chdot
    Admin

    Beryl and partners Cornwall Council have secured funding to deliver a new solar charging project, designed to improve delivery and reduce the operational costs of rural bike share schemes.

    The project, the first-of-its-kind in the UK, will look to boost the existing Cornwall e-bike share scheme with the installation of six solar powered e-mobility charging hubs across the region.

    The hubs, which will be strategically located following consultation, will use rubberised solar panels to power e-bike battery recharging, reducing the amount of daily battery swaps for on-street teams.

    https://micromobilitybiz.com/beryl-secures-funding-for-groundbreaking-solar-charging-project/

    Posted 3 months ago #
  20. chdot
    Admin

  21. bakky
    Member

    One of them - there was a few spoken to, and when Officers discuss at TEC they’re still speaking in plural about potential providers.

    Quite honestly, given the extensive GPS-bound modes that can be enforced through Lime’s setup (speed restrictions, parking restrictions, assistance restrictions, area of operation), I’d lay blame for this at the door of the councils involved. I have no idea if Lime provide them with a management system or will only manage GPS zones on their behalf, and perhaps there’s a demand for money to make changes, but either way it’s clear if you were approaching rolling these out in a sensible way what it requires is a) insisting on designated parking zones and b) having the brass neck to take car parking space away to have them done. If any given council haven’t considered there might be management budget and space reassignment aspects to hosting such a scheme, they’ve not done their due diligence.

    The dumping behaviour is interesting if compared to the ‘shopping trolley test’ (as opposed to the trolley problem) in supermarket car parks:

    "The shopping cart is the ultimate litmus test for whether a person is capable of self-governing, to return the shopping cart is an easy, convenient task and one which we all recognize as the correct, appropriate thing to do. To return the shopping cart is objectively right. There are no situations other than dire emergencies in which a person is not able to return their cart. Simultaneously, it is not illegal to abandon your shopping cart. Therefore the shopping cart presents itself as the apex example of whether a person will do what is right without being forced to do it."

    I would argue that a necessary component of that test is the nearby availability of the place the trolley is meant to be left. But unlike trolleys, Lime’s tech means users can continue to be charged if not correctly parked and trip ended. These stories about clutter are about 20% human nature and 80% failure to plan and manage.

    Posted 2 months ago #
  22. chdot
    Admin

    “having the brass neck to take car parking space away to have them done”

    ThisIsEdinburgh

    Posted 2 months ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    “Officers discuss at TEC they’re still speaking in plural about potential providers“

    Maybe ‘it’ll just happen’

    Or perhaps recent significant changes with senior officials and politicians will reduce capacity and alter priorities(?)

    Posted 2 months ago #
  24. bakky
    Member

    Not sure - but Page 32 of August’s TEC agenda pack has a cycle hire update slated for the next meeting in October https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/documents/g7239/Public%20reports%20pack%2015th-Aug-2024%2010.00%20Transport%20and%20Environment%20Committee.pdf?T=10#page=32

    Posted 2 months ago #
  25. chdot
    Admin

    (Not Edinburgh of course!)

    Rented the foldaway bikes at #Sheriffhall Park & Ride yet?

    Just download the app to access one of the 8 #Brompton bikes stored in solar-powered lockers. For just £5, you get 24 hours of adventure, with hire available for up to 60 days!

    Get the app: https://ow.ly/zJOt50U31PW

    https://x.com/midgov/status/1855264398807298410

    Posted 1 week ago #
  26. bakky
    Member

    Notably those hirable Bromptons, where they pop up (I believe that’s the first location in close proximity to Edinburgh) have a discount or free hire period as a perk of Enterprise Car Club (formerly city car club) membership:

    2 weeks FREE Bromtpon Bike Hire: As an exisitng Car Club member, join Brompton Bike Hire for free and receive 2 weeks of free hire to be used whenever suits. This saves you up to £35, as 24 hour bike hire usually costs £5 day. Simply download the app, register and enter the promo code we will send you within the settings. The credit will automatically be applied to your Brompton Bike Hire account. You’re then ready to hire from any of our 70+ locations and ride.

    From this page

    Posted 1 week ago #
  27. Morningsider
    Member

    I've used the Brompton Bike Hire a few times in London. Absolutely stonking value for money and surely the best quality hire bikes around.

    Nothing like an on-street public bike hire system though. They serve two different markets - one serves the small number of people who want a bike for a day/few days, the other is an integral part of a multi-modal mass transit system.

    Posted 1 week ago #
  28. Yodhrin
    Member

    Re the last bit, ehhhh, they're really more of a stopgap required by the fact we *don't* have a multi-modal mass transit system, no? I don't see why you'd choose a wobbly wee folding bike over a proper sized one *if* the infrastructure was there to ride safely and the bikes were widely available enough you could be assured of finding one whatever your destination - not to mention that ahem individuals with a stout disposition can't use bromptons due to the weight limit. It'd be far more convenient to transit close to destination and ride from there than drive or train to a giant parking lot on the edge of town, then haul a folder around with you on buses until you get close to some actual bike infra.

    Not saying they're a bad thing, but you know the saying; nothing more permanent than a temporary solution. Given Edinburgh's glacial inertia generally we can't praise stopgaps too much or they'll end up as that'sallyougetgaps.

    Posted 1 week ago #
  29. bakky
    Member

    Well - the key thing there is where the multi part hits the modalities - the second I need to factor in a bus, another bike, a hire car or a tram (at least during peak times or festival) then I’m choosing a folder. The occasional rogue just-in-time journey like a previous trip involving a Just Eat bike from the office to the nearest car club van to help with moving a bed for someone at the last minute - I slung the just eat bike in the back of the van but had to return it near the bed pick-up because both wouldn’t fit, a Brompton I could have kept in the front seat and still used for my return leg.

    Most instances they’re not the most practical option, but absolutely bring something otherwise missing to the table.

    Posted 1 week ago #
  30. Arellcat
    Moderator

    I suspect the Brompton name has enough cachet amongst cyclists and just enough cachet amongst occasional cyclists for people to think "archetypal folding bike", whereas people who are not cyclists may look them up and assume "small wheels = slow" and "small wheels = toy". If Deliverooblers have achieved anything of great worth, it may have been to legitimise smaller wheeled bikes.

    To describe a Brompton on a cycle forum as 'a wobbly wee folding bike' however is to do them a great disservice. The steering is quick but stable, the frames are very strong and the weight limit is high. There are very few who could not ride one.

    What I would say though is that Midlothian had a bash at hire bikes before and, quite possibly as a consequence of their location, they suffered in the usual way. The Brompton dock hire thing I think is managed differently - but will have a different clientele if you plonk it in cartropolis.

    Not saying they're a bad thing, but you know the saying; nothing more permanent than a temporary solution.

    In other words, dirty remains long after quick is forgotten.

    Posted 1 week ago #

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