CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Cycling News
cyclist charged with "by wanton or furious driving"
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Posted 6 years ago #
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[drift] When this case was running I did wonder if there is any onus on a bike manufacturer to sell bikes that are roadworthy?
I half wondered if the defense would have tried to put some blame on Planet X - presuming it was a new bike, you couldn't go to Ford or whoever and buy a car that wasn't road legal easily without being made aware and probably having to sign a waver.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I was about to post that all new bikes must be sold with reflectors, brakes and a bell.
I had a quick look, though, and it turns out that the bell bit might not be true any more - the DfT was proposing to get rid of this "red tape" in 2010.
So I don't know any more. Might not have happened, might have happened but not in Scotland, might have got rid of the brakes and reflectors aspects too.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I have seen proper track bikes for sale in Evans with reflectors. Why not a bell eh? Ding ding!
Posted 6 years ago # -
I thought I read somewhere that Allison had bought has bike 2nd hand and it had a front brake when he bought it and he removed the brake?
Posted 6 years ago # -
@fimm I think that was a previous bike he'd had. The media seemed to make great, pointless, play of the fact that he'd bought this £700 track bike for £470.
Posted 6 years ago # -
I'm pretty sure Evans once sold me a new bike without wheel reflectors. One of the OEM wheels came in pringled and so we agreed a swap to a broadly equivalent wheelset they had in stock. You can see how it happened but roolz iz roolz, no?
Posted 6 years ago # -
'... remove charges of "death by careless/dangerous driving" and always charge with manslaughter (or murder where applicable) for all road deaths'
Maybe not removed but the definitions need to be made much less subjective, especially if applying them to cycling.
Can you imagine what the average juror thinks careful and considerate means when applied to cycling?
Posted 6 years ago # -
... the definitions [of careless and dangerous driving] need to be made much less subjective...
+1 Current definition is something like, careless; falls below that of an ordinary competent driver, and dangerous; same but far below.
Why don't they use adherence to the Highway Code as the starting point for what is ordinary competent driving. Then expert witnesses (driving examiners) could be used to give evidence on whether the accused would pass or fail the test and by how far.
Applying this to cyclists would be very problematic because, you don't have to pass a test to cycle (for very good reasons), and children below the age of majority, or legal responsibility can cycle. Could probably update the 1861 offence but is it worth the legislative effort?
Posted 6 years ago # -
If I were walking down the street carrying a ladder over my shoulder and someone stepped into my path without looking, I hit them on the head and inadvertently caused their death due to a head injury, I wonder what the charge would be.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@LD
Would partly depend if they were some distance in front of you and you didn't slow down 'enough'.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Or if only wearing one shoe?
Posted 6 years ago # -
Is the UK really menaced by reckless cyclists?
The anti-cycling backlash in the media in the aftermath of Charlie Alliston trial suggests roads and streets overrun by dangerous cyclists, but is this true?Posted 6 years ago # -
"Is the UK really menaced by reckless cyclists?"
No.
Next question -
Is the UK menaced by drunk lorry drivers?
No, but when they (and drivers generally) causes crashes the results can be (and often are) VERY serious - far more frequently than ultra rare bike/ped incidents.
Posted 6 years ago # -
BaldcyclistHere's some (non official, and not all types of case) stats on drivers who kill, about 2/3 go to prison.
I would be more convinced of a misperception if those statistics proved that drivers were just as likely to go to prison if they killed a cyclist (or pedestrian) as if they killed a motorist.
From the Guardian link above:-
"A BBC study found that fewer than half of driver convicted of offences in which a cyclist died went to jail. "So no they aren't. The perception is correct.
Posted 6 years ago # -
The stats in that Telegraph article are nonsense. Plenty of drivers kill and maim and never have criminal action started against them at all (Harry Clarke etc). Then probably most drivers initially charged with causing death by DD end up pleading down to or being found guilty of causing death by careless driving (and a slap on the wrist), or acquitted altogether. Actions have to be ridiculously egregious in this country to be jailed for killing someone while driving.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Cycling along the shared use path to the south of Melville Drive this morning - a pedestrian intentionally blocks my way. Obviously, I stop. He demands to know why I am using a footpath when there are cycle paths around. I tell him it is a shared use path and I am entitled to use it. "BS" he bellows and shouts that I wasn't doing cyclists any favours, quickly followed by "Pedestrians have been killed by cyclists" - I told him it was preferable to being bored to death and cycled off.
Have to admit that I did check I was in the right when I got to work - all good. It seems that this incident is leading to some sort of backlash against cyclists - particularly amongst walking embodiments of the Daily Mail.
Posted 6 years ago # -
@Morningsider - I have experienced pedestrian rage there also. You can find proof you were in the right if you can be bothered (albeit from a 2014 streetview image):
It's upsetting if this case has shifted public perception even further away from reason....
Posted 6 years ago # -
Signs appeared (yesterday?) on the chicanes outside St. Mary's Primary on Leith Links asking cyclists to "stay on the cycle path" as there are children crossing.
Posted 6 years ago # -
"it seems that this incident is leading to some sort of backlash against cyclists - particularly amongst walking embodiments of the Daily Mail."
DM outrage emboldening ignorant idiots.
Actually I've seen worse anti-cycle stuff in the Express recently.
Not good, hard to counteract, unless there was a government somewhere that was interested in "encouraging ActiveTravel"
I mean unless there was a government somewhere that was interested in "encouraging ActiveTravel" NOT just talking about "encouraging ActiveTravel"
Posted 6 years ago # -
I encountered those chicanes for the first time a couple of weeks ago. What's with the matting to the side? I couldn't work out if it was to encourage me to go round the chicane or what. Is that what the signs mean? Stop taking the conveniently carpeted desire line?
Posted 6 years ago # -
I don't think* these chicanes meet the minimum specification in the cycling by design guidelines (i.e. 3m between barriers) so I go around them when I have the little ones in the trailer.
*happy to be proven wrong.
Posted 6 years ago # -
When I'm going that way, I usually go round and over the matting to avoid any contention with pedestrians coming through the barriers.
Stops all the awkward "You first! No, YOU first..." mullarkey.
Posted 6 years ago # -
That's grim.
I nearly hit a pedestrian in the rain last night. Young lady stepped into the road near, but not on, a pedestrian crossing with an umbrella angled to block any sight of oncoming traffic.
Daresay I'd have been in trouble if I'd hit her. It was very close.
Posted 6 years ago # -
Very unfortunate in London, but the front page coverage shows the negative payoff to cycling of the sensationalist CPS actions and reporting of the Charlie Alliston case.
Meanwhile, all these recent motor vehicle-related pedestrian deaths are mere footnotes. Talk about a dead cat strategy:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-bristol-41254203 (disruption to other drivists more important than someone losing their life apparently)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-41243985
http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/NEWS/15534852.Pedestrian_dies_on_A419/
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4426458/iceland-collision-pensioner-pedestrian-wordsley-killed/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4872726/Two-walkers-killed-hit-4x4-East-Sussex.html
https://www.southwarknews.co.uk/news/emergency-meeting-man-70-dies-lorry-collision/
http://www.bedfordshire-news.co.uk/police-appeal-after-male-pedestrian-killed-in-a5-collision/story-30509286-detail/story.htmlPosted 6 years ago # -
Some excellent graphics on this blog post making just that point.
https://robertweetman.wordpress.com/2017/09/09/just-one-year/
Posted 6 years ago # -
Can't believe this is on the home page of the Grauniad website;
Dog bites man, man bites dog, dog drives over man.
Posted 6 years ago # -
...and The Times has published a chart of KSIs where cyclists are the victims and labeled it "Deaths & Serious Injuries Caused By Cyclists"
https://twitter.com/aseasyasriding/status/908304683281907712
Cat comes out of Times building, starts eating corpse of man run over by dog.
Posted 6 years ago # -
The figures in the Grauniad appear to be misleading or wrong also:
Figures from the Office for National Statistics for 2006 to 2010 show the annual number of pedestrians who died as a result of collisions with cyclists varied from zero in 2009 to six in 2007. The equivalent figure from collisions with a car, truck or pickup truck ranged from 123 in 2010 to 267 in 2007.
My understanding is that around 400 pedestrians die each year due to collisions with motor vehicles.
Perhaps the Guardian have only quoted pedestrian deaths due to collisions with a "car, truck or pickup truck", which maybe excludes HGVs, buses, taxis and vans?
I noticed the BBC did something similar awhile back with regards to NO2 pollution. They only quoted the contribution from private diesel cars as 11% of the total, quietly ignoring the totals from HGVs, buses, vans, taxis, LGVs, motorcycles and petrol cars (which would've made the total for all road transport 48%)
See: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/science-environment-38979754
Posted 6 years ago #
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